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Thread: Relationship of racial preferences with the admissions cheating scandal

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    Relationship of racial preferences with the admissions cheating scandal

    So I posted an observation linking the cheating scandal in college admissions with students getting into college by virtue of their race.
    It promptly got moved ~Elsewhere as a "derail". Would not want to clutter the thread about the AOC the Great with digressions like that, when we must discuss her choice of office furniture!

    Anyhoo. my contention is that both things are wrong. And if racial preferences make it more difficult for white (and Asian) kids to get into top colleges, that gives more incentive for bribery and similar malfeasance. Not that I defend it, I do not, but at the same time I do not think people should get into college because of their race either.

    After all, unlike Huffman and Lochlin, Angela Bassett does not have to bribe anybody to get her kids into college or say med school. They get extra points given to them just because they are black, no bribes required.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    And if racial preferences make it more difficult for white (and Asian) kids to get into top colleges, that gives more incentive for bribery and similar malfeasance. Not that I defend it, I do not, but at the same time I do not think people should get into college because of their race either.
    So you believe that giving preference to offset historical disadvantages is just as bad as unlawfully giving preferences to enhance or maintain social and financial advantages.

    Not surprising. Not one bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hurtinbuckaroo View Post
    So you believe that giving preference to offset historical disadvantages is just as bad as unlawfully giving preferences to enhance or maintain social and financial advantages.

    Not surprising. Not one bit.
    Fascinating how you read in the words "just as bad".

    Derec didn't say one is worse than the other. He may think one is or that they are the same, but he didn't say so. You entirely read that in on his behalf. Why?

    But, now, let's actually go there. In one case you have state sanctioned racist discrimination. In the other you have individuals facing harder challenges cheating to accomplish them. Do you want to rate one as worse than the other. Which do you choose?

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    Do white students actually have difficulty getting into schools because X many minority students were accepted?

    Every year, my son had to play a sort of lottery for housing in the dorms at his college. They always had accepted more students than they had room for. I would have thought that was a sort of hard limit on the number attending.
    But as near as I can tell, schools would accept as many students as they could cram into the classrooms. So I suspect that adding X many minority has little or no impact on white student registration.

    But that's just my impression. Other people obviously see blacks being accepted and KNOW it's at the cost of some white student(s). But is there any data available on this? Actual numbers, or published policy statements?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    But as near as I can tell, schools would accept as many students as they could cram into the classrooms. So I suspect that adding X many minority has little or no impact on white student registration.
    You haven't ever seen an admissions rejection letter stating the school is filled and has no room for the applicant? That must be nice. You imagine Infinite places and they accept everyone so long as they have ok grades? No competition for spots? Must be nice. I will wager a guess that you are not a mediocre Asian applicant.

    One stereotype of Asians is that we are all super hard studying and naturally brilliant. It isn't true. We have some marginal ones too, who do indeed get their race held against them, their whole lives, for not measuring up to expectation. You are Chinese and you can't do basic math?????

    We don't all grow up in wealthy 2 parent homes either. Yes these folks get hit hard when applying to schools where race is used as proxy. Why this is hard for people to understand truly confuses me.

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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly_Penguin View Post
    You haven't ever seen an admissions rejection letter stating the school is filled and has no room for the applicant?
    No, I haven't, but I also tend to be suspicious about form letters.
    I was asking for actual data. Numbers and stuff like that?
    That must be nice. You imagine Infinite places and they accept everyone so long as they have ok grades?
    Yeah, that's the word I used, 'infinite.'
    Any actual data, though?
    No competition for spots?
    So you have numbers on sports?
    I wasn't asking about scholarships. The money available for that would be limited, obviously.
    I was asking about admissions.
    Must be nice. I will wager a guess that you are not a mediocre Asian applicant.
    I thought I was pretty specific about my impressions being based on my son.
    Not myself.
    I never went to college.

    But aside from the sneering, are we getting any closer to data?
    One stereotype of Asians is that we are all super hard studying and naturally brilliant. It isn't true. We have some marginal ones too, who do indeed get their race held against them, their whole lives, for not measuring up to expectation. You are Chinese and you can't do basic math?????

    We don't all grow up in wealthy 2 parent homes either. Yes these folks get hit hard when applying to schools where race is used as proxy. Why this is hard for people to understand truly confuses me.
    I understand the claim.
    I was asking for data.

    If all you have is bitching about stereotypes that I have not applied, then maybe someone else can help me?

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    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    If anyone is looking for a current example of white privilege, consider that a rich white person can claim their daughter is a star water polo player, and no one in the admissions office thinks that's the least bit strange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    If anyone is looking for a current example of white black privilege, consider that a rich white black person can claim their daughter is a star water polo basketball player, and no one in the admissions office thinks that's the least bit strange.
    Is that true too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Do white students actually have difficulty getting into schools because X many minority students were accepted?

    Every year, my son had to play a sort of lottery for housing in the dorms at his college. They always had accepted more students than they had room for. I would have thought that was a sort of hard limit on the number attending.
    But as near as I can tell, schools would accept as many students as they could cram into the classrooms. So I suspect that adding X many minority has little or no impact on white student registration.

    But that's just my impression. Other people obviously see blacks being accepted and KNOW it's at the cost of some white student(s). But is there any data available on this? Actual numbers, or published policy statements?
    It's not that affluent whites are actually discriminated against, it's that they can't conceive of their precious, 4.0, IB program, charity-doing children being turned down from Georgetown for any other reason than reverse racism. Scots-Irish or German descendants with buckets of money are still admitted to universities at a populationally disproportionate rate.

    Whether the system shows bias against Asians is another matter, as the recent court case demonstrated. Though I think race stereotyping is more of a threat than supposed racial quotas (which are illegal in the state where the case appeared, hence the lawsuit).

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    Numbers were posted above. If you want more, there is this thing you can use called google.

    It amazes me how quickly people rush to the conclusion when Black people are discriminated against but need to be pulled kicking and screaming to the conclusion when Asians are.

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