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Thread: Adolf Hitler the Great Betrayer

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Adolf Hitler the Great Betrayer

    I'm calling him that because he had betrayed so many of his supporters over the decades of his career.

    Anti-Capitalist Early Nazis. In the early years of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, there were some genuine anti-capitalist Nazis like Gottfried Feder, who opposed "interest slavery". It even got into the Nazis' official platform as "11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery." But as the Nazi Party grew, Adolf Hitler kissed up to the banks and explained away this provision as referring to Jews.

    The Early Nazi Militia. The SA (Sturmabteilung "Storm Brigade") was a paramilitary German-nationalist organization that became the military wing of the Nazi Party in its early years. This militia protected Nazi rallies, interfered with rivals' rallies, and fought rivals' militias, like in street brawls. Its top leader, Ernst Röhm, was a good friend of Adolf Hitler himself. But after Hitler consolidated his rule of Germany, he decided to show who is boss and to please those who distrusted the SA. So he ordered a purge of the SA, the Night of the Long Knives in the summer of 1934. Ernst Röhm and several other SA leaders were executed in it, and the SA was not much after that.

    Homosexual Early Nazis. Many early Nazis were gay, including SA leaders like Ernst Röhm himself. But Hitler justified his purge of the SA by pointing out their gayness, and the Nazi regime continued with homophobia, suppressing gay-rights efforts and gay bars, and jailing some 50,000 gay people, mostly men, sending several thousand of them to concentration camps, and subjecting some of them to sadistic tortures. The concentration camps' jailers made their inmates wear badges to show what they were in for, and gay men got pink triangles, originally downward-pointing.

    The more mainstream conservatives. The Nazis came to power as part of a coalition with the conservative Nationalist Party, but after the Reichstag fire of early 1933, Hitler demanded emergency powers and got them. By the middle of the year, all political parties were banned except the Nazi Party, and his coalition partners meekly shut down their party.

    The Western Powers. In the mid-1930's, the Nazis started their expansionism, sending their troops into the Rhineland in 1936 and annexing Austria early in 1938. They then started to howl about how Czechs were being very nasty to ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland areas of Czechoslovakia. They demanded the annexation of the Sudetenland, and in September 1938, the leaders of Britain, France, and Italy went to Munich, Germany, and agreed to that annexation. The prime minister of Britain, Neville Chamberlain, called it "peace for our time". Early next year, however, the Nazis took over the rest of Czechoslovakia, turning the Czech part into a protectorate and making the Slovak part nominally independent. Later that year, the Nazis howled about mistreatment of ethnic Germans in Poland and claimed that Poland was getting ready to start a war with Germany. This time, however, Britain and France were less willing to appease the Nazis.

    The Soviet Union. A part of the Munich appeasement deal was omitting the Soviet Union, almost as if Britain's and France's leaders hoped that Nazi Germany would direct its expansionism against that nation. But in the middle of 1939, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union had started secret negotiations, and in August of that year, they decided a nonaggression pact. The next month, Germany invaded Poland, and that was soon followed by Germany and the Soviet Union dividing Poland and the Baltic states between them. For the next two years, Germany fought the Western powers, conquering France and bombarding Britain. As this was going on, the Nazi leaders left their eastern borders poorly defended and vulnerable. Yet Stalin trusted Hitler, the same Stalin who ordered massive purges of the Soviet Communist Party and military forces, who found many of his fellow Old Bolsheviks guilty of bogus charges in the Moscow Trials, and who ordered a hit on his old colleague Leon Trotsky. He trusted Hitler enough not to pay much attention to Germany's military buildup near the Soviet Union's borders in mid-1941, and when the Nazis attacked on June 22 of that year, Stalin allegedly had a nervous breakdown. It took a massive military effort to drive Germany out of the Soviet Union, an effort that cost the lives of some 20 million Soviet citizens.


    Nevertheless, Hitler did stand by a few people the whole time, like his good friend Benito Mussolini.

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    The inner circle was a cleptocracy. Before his rise he made money with books, and of course his polecat image was one of a common man.

    Once in power he managed to get exempted from all taxes after an investigation.

    The Night Of The Long Knives when he killed off supporters who could threaten him in the future.

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    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    I'm calling him that because he had betrayed so many of his supporters over the decades of his career.

    Anti-Capitalist Early Nazis. In the early years of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, there were some genuine anti-capitalist Nazis like Gottfried Feder, who opposed "interest slavery". It even got into the Nazis' official platform as "11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery." But as the Nazi Party grew, Adolf Hitler kissed up to the banks and explained away this provision as referring to Jews.

    The Early Nazi Militia. The SA (Sturmabteilung "Storm Brigade") was a paramilitary German-nationalist organization that became the military wing of the Nazi Party in its early years. This militia protected Nazi rallies, interfered with rivals' rallies, and fought rivals' militias, like in street brawls. Its top leader, Ernst Röhm, was a good friend of Adolf Hitler himself. But after Hitler consolidated his rule of Germany, he decided to show who is boss and to please those who distrusted the SA. So he ordered a purge of the SA, the Night of the Long Knives in the summer of 1934. Ernst Röhm and several other SA leaders were executed in it, and the SA was not much after that.

    Homosexual Early Nazis. Many early Nazis were gay, including SA leaders like Ernst Röhm himself. But Hitler justified his purge of the SA by pointing out their gayness, and the Nazi regime continued with homophobia, suppressing gay-rights efforts and gay bars, and jailing some 50,000 gay people, mostly men, sending several thousand of them to concentration camps, and subjecting some of them to sadistic tortures. The concentration camps' jailers made their inmates wear badges to show what they were in for, and gay men got pink triangles, originally downward-pointing.

    The more mainstream conservatives. The Nazis came to power as part of a coalition with the conservative Nationalist Party, but after the Reichstag fire of early 1933, Hitler demanded emergency powers and got them. By the middle of the year, all political parties were banned except the Nazi Party, and his coalition partners meekly shut down their party.

    The Western Powers. In the mid-1930's, the Nazis started their expansionism, sending their troops into the Rhineland in 1936 and annexing Austria early in 1938. They then started to howl about how Czechs were being very nasty to ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland areas of Czechoslovakia. They demanded the annexation of the Sudetenland, and in September 1938, the leaders of Britain, France, and Italy went to Munich, Germany, and agreed to that annexation. The prime minister of Britain, Neville Chamberlain, called it "peace for our time". Early next year, however, the Nazis took over the rest of Czechoslovakia, turning the Czech part into a protectorate and making the Slovak part nominally independent. Later that year, the Nazis howled about mistreatment of ethnic Germans in Poland and claimed that Poland was getting ready to start a war with Germany. This time, however, Britain and France were less willing to appease the Nazis.

    The Soviet Union. A part of the Munich appeasement deal was omitting the Soviet Union, almost as if Britain's and France's leaders hoped that Nazi Germany would direct its expansionism against that nation. But in the middle of 1939, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union had started secret negotiations, and in August of that year, they decided a nonaggression pact. The next month, Germany invaded Poland, and that was soon followed by Germany and the Soviet Union dividing Poland and the Baltic states between them. For the next two years, Germany fought the Western powers, conquering France and bombarding Britain. As this was going on, the Nazi leaders left their eastern borders poorly defended and vulnerable. Yet Stalin trusted Hitler, the same Stalin who ordered massive purges of the Soviet Communist Party and military forces, who found many of his fellow Old Bolsheviks guilty of bogus charges in the Moscow Trials, and who ordered a hit on his old colleague Leon Trotsky. He trusted Hitler enough not to pay much attention to Germany's military buildup near the Soviet Union's borders in mid-1941, and when the Nazis attacked on June 22 of that year, Stalin allegedly had a nervous breakdown. It took a massive military effort to drive Germany out of the Soviet Union, an effort that cost the lives of some 20 million Soviet citizens.


    Nevertheless, Hitler did stand by a few people the whole time, like his good friend Benito Mussolini.
    His biggest betrayal was of the German people (in the narrow sense defined by his party, rather than the broader sense of 'everyone in Germany' - his betrayal of the others: the Jews; the Roma; the homosexuals; the mentally and physically ill; and various other minorities, was deliberate and immediate, as you have alluded to already).

    He got to power on his popular appeal amongst the volk, and they believed him when he said that they would rule the world for a thousand years. Then he led them into a situation that ended with them being raped, robbed and shot on the streets of Berlin by Russian soldiers, just a dozen years later.

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    His biggest betrayal was of the German people (in the narrow sense defined by his party, rather than the broader sense of 'everyone in Germany' - his betrayal of the others: the Jews; the Roma; the homosexuals; the mentally and physically ill; and various other minorities, was deliberate and immediate, as you have alluded to already).
    I wouldn't say that he betrayed the Jews, for instance. He believed for just about all of his political career that Jews are Very Bad People.

    I was pointing to how he deliberately turned against many of the people who had supported him.
    He got to power on his popular appeal amongst the volk, and they believed him when he said that they would rule the world for a thousand years. Then he led them into a situation that ended with them being raped, robbed and shot on the streets of Berlin by Russian soldiers, just a dozen years later.
    This was not a deliberate policy on his part, but overconfidence.

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    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    His biggest betrayal was of the German people (in the narrow sense defined by his party, rather than the broader sense of 'everyone in Germany' - his betrayal of the others: the Jews; the Roma; the homosexuals; the mentally and physically ill; and various other minorities, was deliberate and immediate, as you have alluded to already).
    I wouldn't say that he betrayed the Jews, for instance. He believed for just about all of his political career that Jews are Very Bad People.

    I was pointing to how he deliberately turned against many of the people who had supported him.
    He got to power on his popular appeal amongst the volk, and they believed him when he said that they would rule the world for a thousand years. Then he led them into a situation that ended with them being raped, robbed and shot on the streets of Berlin by Russian soldiers, just a dozen years later.
    This was not a deliberate policy on his part, but overconfidence.
    I disagree. It was incompetence. He likely could have won the war, and had every right to be very confident - but he made a series of very obvious blunders, wherein he overruled the experts and dictated that the army do something strategically disastrous.

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    Hitler was a political genius, albeit an eveil one. You can watch his speeches online. Adter a while you can see he had a repertoire of gestures, faces, and inonations. The pregnamt pause. with eyes upturned in ecstasy..

    We studied Nazis in a poly sci class. They expertly pushed cultural buttons, 'blood and Earth'. Watch Triumph Of The Will online with subtitles.

    At one time post WWI he was actualy a govt agent of a sort and was trained in polical manipulation.

    He had a personal photographer who he worked with testing different clothes.

    He was a calculating politician. He skillfully manipulated factions and unified Germany. He correctly assessed the state of the Allies before hostilities. The Germans only had supplies for about 90 days. He rolled the dice and won the initial conflict. The military fell in line until it went bad.

    Some say including Germans post war the war was lost at Dunkirk. The rag tag British recue lost the wepons but saved a lot of soldiers. If the Brits were completely destroyed England would have wide open.

    They also went to war without significant mechanized transport. In the invasion of Poland a percentage of transport was horse drawn.


    Napoleon had the same problem, believing his own myth and overconfidence. At one point He was ordering an ivasion fleet to be built for England, and there were no resources.

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    Contributor repoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    I wouldn't say that he betrayed the Jews, for instance. He believed for just about all of his political career that Jews are Very Bad People.

    I was pointing to how he deliberately turned against many of the people who had supported him.

    This was not a deliberate policy on his part, but overconfidence.
    I disagree. It was incompetence. He likely could have won the war, and had every right to be very confident - but he made a series of very obvious blunders, wherein he overruled the experts and dictated that the army do something strategically disastrous.
    I am not an expert in this at all, but I listened to a short lecture that seemed to make great points about why Hitler was doomed from close to the start. Oops, looks to be deleted. So I have this Newsweek article by him:
    https://www.newsweek.com/victory-wor...s-grasp-708500

    Also this secret audio of Hitler in 1942 reeling from the massive Russian industrial capacity.


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    Did not know this. This changes everything. #UnfollowedHitler

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    I am having a video problem Search for Triumph Of The Will. It is a Nazi propaganda movie documentary, considered to be the greatest propaganda work of all time. Also try Hitler speech Nuremburg.

    Triumph Of the Will was kept confidential post war until the 70s because it was considered provocative and dangerous. I saw it on a philosophy class on the 70s.

    PostWWI Hitler was angy he did not become an officer and was angy at the setllemn. He had antipathy for the aristocratic military class.

    As head of stse he was paranoid and distrful, compartmentalizing. Persoanl initiative was stifled.

    Famously on D0Day when it was clear it was Normandy local command would not release tanks to the beaches without authorization. No one would wake Hitter up at night.
    There were several points when Russia was on the verge of failure. Guderian begged Hitler for the latitude to take advantage of opportunity as Patton had and was sacked once or twice.

    Hitler had no large scale track equivalent to the Allies' 2 1/2 ton. He was unable to resupply Russia.

    He started the war with out a long range bomber equivalent to the British Lancaster and American B17.

    One of the worst blunders was switching from bombing RAF infrastructure to city terror bombing. it allowed the RAF to rearm and train. The RAF was on the brink of collapse.

    In Africa Rommel was close to taking the Suez and Hitler pulled him back. The British code breakers hacked the German naval code and were sinking fuel ships.

    It was a series of events. Once the USA was in the war in the long run Germany could not compete with the manpower and industrial capacity of both the USA and Canada. Canada was an important part of the win.

    Hitler fancied himself a conqueror in the classical sense. He was surrounded by truly bizarre people like Himmler and Goebbels. If he had let the professional army leadership prosecute the war and if he stopped to consolidate his gains before Russia the world might be a different place today.

    One other thing, he had a long series of weapons project that went nowhere. He was looking for a magic bullet. The first jet fighter might have made a difference if it was produced earlier. Instead of mass producing serviceable tanks like the Russians he kept developing newer more complicated ranks looking for a winning tactical advantage.

    .

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    Veteran Member Sarpedon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby
    He got to power on his popular appeal amongst the volk, and they believed him when he said that they would rule the world for a thousand years. Then he led them into a situation that ended with them being raped, robbed and shot on the streets of Berlin by Russian soldiers, just a dozen years later.
    It was even worse than that. In his last days he ordered his followers to destroy all infrastructure, public buildings, and everything that could possibly be of use to the allies. This was not a defensive measure; he made it clear that he felt the German People had failed and wanted Germany destroyed with him. Fortunately, most of these orders were not carried out.

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