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    Veteran Member Brian63's Avatar
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    Pete Buttigieg

    Here are 2 MSNBC clips from Tuesday morning's broadcast of "Morning Joe".

    Clip 1 (11 minutes long)

    Clip 2 (16 minutes long)

    Wow. Imagine having an intelligent, knowledgeable, thoughtful, articulate, compassionate person, who has background experience in the military and serving as an executive in a government, serving as President of the United States, in contrast to what we have today. He is the current mayor of South Bend, Indiana and seems like a great candidate, except that the country probably is not ready for a gay president yet. Hopefully I would be wrong, but the Religious Right still holds too much political and cultural power and they would throw fire and brimstone if the Dems nominated such a candidate, getting all their foot soldiers rushed to the polls to prevent the apocalypse of a gay president.

    At the end of the 2nd clip, Mika (a co-host) notes the in depth and substantive discussion they were having with Pete, in contrast to what the current President of the United States had concurrently tweeted, remarks about a top adviser's husband being jealous, a stone cold loser, and a husband from hell. Well, if there is one thing Trump has expertise and experience with, it is being a husband from hell. Gotta give him his dues there.
    Last edited by Brian63; 03-21-2019 at 03:45 PM.

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    I agree that he seems impressive. I don’t see military experience as a must.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    I don’t see military experience as a must.
    I agree.. but I do see a long, consistent history of public service as a Must.

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    Industrial Grade Linguist Copernicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Nut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    I don’t see military experience as a must.
    I agree.. but I do see a long, consistent history of public service as a Must.
    Look how well that worked out in the 2016 election. The winner had zero military service and zero public service in his past. The loser had a long, consistent history of public service.

    I really like Pete Buttigieg and think he would make a fine president, if he could manage to beat Donald Trump in the electoral college. I also see him as one of the Democrats' weakest candidates precisely because they are so entranced by his being gay. Social issues are the biggest blind spot for Democrats. The American public is extremely fickle when it comes to controversial issues like gay marriage, minority rights, racial discrimination, abortion. They aren't necessarily show-stoppers in a presidential election, but those are the issues that the entire campaign will then be about. Those are issues that attract eyeballs in social and press media, and they attract them away from the more important issues of climate change, economy, health care, foreign relations, corruption, infrastructure repair, etc. For Democrats, Pete Buttigieg is the bright, shiny new object who comes out of the box with no tarnish on him. And their base consists of large communities of African Americans and Hispanics--communities that are not as progressive on social issues as the enthusiastic liberal ideologues are. So, with a candidate like Buttigieg, they will have a lot of work to do to turn out large numbers of those voters, if the major issue is same sex marriage.

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    Veteran Member Brian63's Avatar
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    If Pete was on the presidential debate stage against Donald, and voters were watching them and internally deciding "Which of these two do I trust more and would rather have as president?" the core reaction, for the large majority of the population, would prefer President Pete. No, I do not have exact data for that, but just would note that among the latest Iowa Dem pulling, Buttigieg had a significantly low disapproval rating. So generally people either like him, or they do not know him yet. Give him a larger audience though, and he would have a much stronger appeal than a Trump would. Even now, this early in the process, people are not just liking Pete, they are loving him. He has gotten great feedback and ratings and has raised a lot of money. People would not just vote for him, they would be more active in supporting him and campaigning for him. Contrast that love that people have for Pete against Donald's large disapproval rating, and I think Pete would do very well in a general election against Donald. The religious right, where same-sex-marriage is an issue, is dying in numbers (and liberal secularists are accelerating our rise in comparison), to the point where him being gay would be a relatively insignificant issue. The Dem party would overwhelmingly support Pete in the general election, independents would find him more appealing by large margins, and the religious conservative base would have shrunk in size. All good indicators for Pete. I do think my OP was wrong, and the religious right would have less impact on the election than I was thinking at the time it was written.

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    Industrial Grade Linguist Copernicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian63 View Post
    If Pete was on the presidential debate stage against Donald, and voters were watching them and internally deciding "Which of these two do I trust more and would rather have as president?" the core reaction, for the large majority of the population, would prefer President Pete. No, I do not have exact data for that, but just would note that among the latest Iowa Dem pulling, Buttigieg had a significantly low disapproval rating. So generally people either like him, or they do not know him yet. Give him a larger audience though, and he would have a much stronger appeal than a Trump would. Even now, this early in the process, people are not just liking Pete, they are loving him. He has gotten great feedback and ratings and has raised a lot of money. People would not just vote for him, they would be more active in supporting him and campaigning for him. Contrast that love that people have for Pete against Donald's large disapproval rating, and I think Pete would do very well in a general election against Donald. The religious right, where same-sex-marriage is an issue, is dying in numbers (and liberal secularists are accelerating our rise in comparison), to the point where him being gay would be a relatively insignificant issue. The Dem party would overwhelmingly support Pete in the general election, independents would find him more appealing by large margins, and the religious conservative base would have shrunk in size. All good indicators for Pete. I do think my OP was wrong, and the religious right would have less impact on the election than I was thinking at the time it was written.
    Brian, I think that you are oversimplifying the difficulties that a candidate like Buttigieg faces. First of all, most voters do not watch debates. They watch commentaries on debates and snippets that are repeated over and over. Turning out the vote is really important, so you want a candidate that most Democrats and moderates will find attractive. Most people right now don't even know who Buttigieg is, and it is debatable whether they will be attracted to him enough to get out in the large numbers needed to win in purple states. Unfortunately, the US does not have democratic elections. It has an electoral system dominated by state elections. And conservatives tend to have a much larger footprint in that type of election than in one based on popular vote. So, Buttigieg could easily win all of the debates and still lose the election. (And I seriously doubt that he would be portrayed as "winning" even the presidential debates, since the factors that count most in the media have a lot to do with factors such as who dominated air time during the debate.) Moreover, you may be underestimating how strongly the conservative Christian electorate will feel motivated to vote against a man who is married to a man. That would be a huge issue for them, and Donald Trump's more normal misogynistic and bigoted behavior might appear far less threatening to them.

    And I also think that koy made a very important point. Once Buttigieg's halo starts to acquire a little tarnish, people are going to be taking second and third looks at his qualifications for office. I know that Donald Trump has created an extremely low bar for any candidate to rise above, but bread and butter issues matter more to the broader (more moderate) Democratic base than the social issues that shine brightly for the young liberal/progressive wing of the party. Democrats are notorious for not showing up at the polls when their candidate offers more style than substance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian63 View Post
    Here are 2 MSNBC clips from Tuesday morning's broadcast of "Morning Joe".

    Clip 1 (11 minutes long)

    Clip 2 (16 minutes long)

    Wow. Imagine having an intelligent, knowledgeable, thoughtful, articulate, compassionate person, who has background experience in the military and serving as an executive in a government, serving as President of the United States, in contrast to what we have today. He is the current mayor of South Bend, Indiana and seems like a great candidate, except that the country probably is not ready for a gay president yet. Hopefully I would be wrong, but the Religious Right still holds too much political and cultural power and they would throw fire and brimstone if the Dems nominated such a candidate, getting all their foot soldiers rushed to the polls to prevent the apocalypse of a gay president.

    At the end of the 2nd clip, Mika (a co-host) notes the in depth and substantive discussion they were having with Pete, in contrast to what the current President of the United States had concurrently tweeted, remarks about a top adviser's husband being jealous, a stone cold loser, and a husband from hell. Well, if there is one thing Trump has expertise and experience with, it is being a husband from hell. Gotta give him his dues there.
    Yea, he's sharp.

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    Veteran Member Brian63's Avatar
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    On Wednesday, the day after that interview, Joe posted the following on his Twitter account:

    https://twitter.com/JoeNBC/status/1108520869700272129

    Mika and I have been overwhelmed by the reaction @PeteButtigieg got after being on the show. The only other time in twelve years that we heard from as many people about a guest was after @BarackObama appeared on Morning Joe.
    When you get to know him, you get to like him. [ETA: Assuming it was mostly positive reactions they received...]

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    Well he is certainly more qualified than β, fwiw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian63 View Post
    Here are 2 MSNBC clips from Tuesday morning's broadcast of "Morning Joe".

    Clip 1 (11 minutes long)

    Clip 2 (16 minutes long)

    Wow. Imagine having an intelligent, knowledgeable, thoughtful, articulate, compassionate person, who has background experience in the military and serving as an executive in a government, serving as President of the United States, in contrast to what we have today. He is the current mayor of South Bend, Indiana and seems like a great candidate, except that the country probably is not ready for a gay president yet. Hopefully I would be wrong, but the Religious Right still holds too much political and cultural power and they would throw fire and brimstone if the Dems nominated such a candidate, getting all their foot soldiers rushed to the polls to prevent the apocalypse of a gay president.

    At the end of the 2nd clip, Mika (a co-host) notes the in depth and substantive discussion they were having with Pete, in contrast to what the current President of the United States had concurrently tweeted, remarks about a top adviser's husband being jealous, a stone cold loser, and a husband from hell. Well, if there is one thing Trump has expertise and experience with, it is being a husband from hell. Gotta give him his dues there.
    Yea, he's sharp.
    I watched the Mayor's appearances on Morning Joe, Fox News with Chris Wallace, and the CNN town hall from Austin.

    Politicians have their talking points at the ready and will often respond to a question with the point which hits closest to the question, or say "that's a great question" and launch into a taking point they want to get out.

    Buttigieg has rehearsed answers (if you watch all three appearances you see him repeat the same phrases), but they're actually answers, as opposed to talking points.

    It's a subtle distinction, but important. This guy is good.

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