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Thread: Is hate speech free speech and Should we kill it?

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    I am here! just_me's Avatar
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    Is hate speech free speech and Should we kill it?

    I just read a post here about Facebook by Jolly_Penguin https://talkfreethought.org/showthre...te-Nationalism
    I will not derail that thread, but I'd like to share my feelings on what they were talking about and ask you for yours. This is an important issue and needs to be discussed. Thank you


    I love it when people(Facebook) can define what the want as they want, whenever they want to and tell you they are protecting people.

    please repeat after me:
    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
    Martin Niemöller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

    You take away one person's right of free speech then you endanger all peoples right of free speech. All one has to to is meander into someone more influential than you's cross hairs and suddenly you don't have a voice. I don't hate anyone but I do consider these supremacist groups the most vile insects on the planet. I've wanted to beat the crap out of the few I have heard, but I will fight tooth and nail for their right to speak, if only to allow those people unfamiliar with hate to hear what it sounds like.

    How can those being birthed today recognize such speech unless they have been exposed to it and have the chance to deliberate it in their heads and define what to do with those who agree with such speech. Without that experience how can the defend society against those who think it.

    This is just another attempt to kill an idea and ideas can not be killed. You can drive these people underground, but then you won't know where they are until the knife is hilt deep into your back. I define hate is a disease of the heart and in order for it to be dealt with you need to vaccinate against it through experience.

    I look at these kids today and see them doing a cry in and these snowflakes that need a safe space to hide from the truly evil in our society and I really wonder who is going to take our place when we leave this world. I've looked at the Democratic party, which I've, more than once called Republican lite and for damn good reason. I look at these professional politicians who claim to be on the left, but couldn't bring themselves to give us Universal healthcare or couldn't stand up and say out-load that they believe that gay people should be able to marry who they want and I worry.

    The only good thing that has happened for the left because of President Trump is the rise of the far left and those people like AOC who has fire in her blood. If I were from the right I would rather stand toe to toe with her than those the left has had in the past. The only one I've seen close to her is Senator Warren and I'd love to see either one of them against a White supremacist.
    HE WHOEVER FIGHTS MONSTERS SHOULD SEE TO IT THAT IN THE PROCESS HE DOES NOT BECOME A MONSTER. AND IF YOU GAZE LONG ENOUGH INTO THE ABYSS, THE ABYSS GAZES INTO YOU.

    Friedrich Nietzsche

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    We are free to hate. We are not free to act on our hate or incite others to acts of violence .

    The ACKU once defnded the right of the KKK to demonstrate and parade.

    The right is for all or none. When we kill speech in the name of political correctness we are on the road to tyranny.

    Listen to the hate speech in congress from both left and right.

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    I'm inclined to say that hate speech should be countered through public debate, not banned

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    the baby-eater
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    A post I made in another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by bigfield View Post
    There are two fundamental problems with the way free speech works in a liberal society:

    1. Not everyone has a platform, so minorities don't have a platform from which to exercise their right of reply when someone attacks them. In Australia we've recently seen this with respect to Muslims and Africans.

    2. The system has no protection against propaganda. Propagandists don't fight fair, most people don't have a defence against propaganda. It's up to the people in charge to identify their messages as propaganda, deny them a platform and enforce a minimum standard of integrity.
    In the "free marketplace of ideas", propaganda wins out over reasoned argument. Access to a platform is gained, not by the merit of one's ideas or through a system that guarantees all everyone is heard, but by one's popularity, and those are definitely not the same thing.

    People frequently claim that hate and bullshit ought to be brought out into the light of public scrutiny where it is supposed to wither and die, but we have ample evidence now to show that it thrives like a weed.

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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    "You take away one person's right of free speech then you endanger all peoples right of free speech."

    But does 'a right to free speech' apply to Facebook posts?
    The 'free speech' article says the government cannot shut you up, short of posing a threat to other people.
    Leaving aside the question of whether hate speech is harm, has anyone's actual RIGHT been infringed by one online community squelching their message?

    "How can those being birthed today recognize such speech unless they have been exposed to it and have the chance to deliberate it in their heads and define what to do with those who agree with such speech. Without that experience how can the defend society against those who think it."
    Good questions, but does anyone HAVE to be exposed to it EVERYWHERE they go?
    Does facebook have a responsibility to the birthed-today to facilitate their exposure to hate speech?

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    I'm inclined to say that hate speech should be countered through public debate, not banned
    This would be ideal, but history shows it doesn't necessarily work any better than censorship; all of America's atrocities were preceded by long public debate and good-minded (usually Quaker) citizens trying to publically counter hateful narratives. It doesn't seem to stop the horrors from occurring.

    I am sympathetic to justme's point also. I am unsure of what our ideal solution could look like.

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    On the contrary the 'market place of ideas' has worked well.

    Rights for blacks and gays has become a majority view. Minority views will never go away.

    The problem is who sets the speech standard. And the slippery slope argument follows. Catholics are around 25% of population. Should Catholics set the standard?

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    I am here! just_me's Avatar
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    I think there should be no standards of speech but there should standards of the way people use these words.

    You should be able to speak of many things but when you start disparaging and degrading people and ideas out of hand then you bring into question your objectivity. It's one thing to be passionate about an issue. It is quite another to try and preach to others.
    HE WHOEVER FIGHTS MONSTERS SHOULD SEE TO IT THAT IN THE PROCESS HE DOES NOT BECOME A MONSTER. AND IF YOU GAZE LONG ENOUGH INTO THE ABYSS, THE ABYSS GAZES INTO YOU.

    Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Contributor Trausti's Avatar
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    Can't see how any atheist/agnostic could be in favor of banning "hate speech" as the theists would quickly have our heads.

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    the baby-eater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post
    Can't see how any atheist/agnostic could be in favor of banning "hate speech" as the theists would quickly have our heads.
    Hate speech is banned in Australia, and atheists are free.

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