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Thread: The Unequal Opportunity Race

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    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
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    The Unequal Opportunity Race


    (View video on YouTube)

    I have a feeling this little animation might spark an interesting debate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post

    (View video on YouTube)

    I have a feeling this little animation might spark an interesting debate.
    Oy vey. This is a good video to show people when you want to convince them affirmative action is based on broken thinking.

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    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Something that (pleasantly) surprised me was the apparently high number of comments below the video on youtube which were not dismissive of it. I expected responses to be predominantly negative, but by and large they weren't, especially the more one read through them at length. But perhaps I should not have been so surprised, given that a majority of people apparently support AA in principle at least. I guess I just didn't expect a representative sample to be responding on the internet below an arguably controversial youtube video.

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    Am I the only one who sees the irony of a black versus white foot race as an analogy of unequal opportunity whites have over blacks? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fastest runners in the world are generally black, largely because of superior muscle physiology. One might even say they have a "black privilege" when it comes to track and field events. Should we be giving other races a head start so they have an equal opportunity to win the event?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebeave View Post
    Am I the only one who sees the irony of a black versus white foot race as an analogy of unequal opportunity whites have over blacks? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fastest runners in the world are generally black, largely because of superior muscle physiology. One might even say they have a "black privilege" when it comes to track and field events. Should we be giving other races a head start so they have an equal opportunity to win the event?
    No you are not the only one. One of the commenters picked up on something similar.

    As to your question, maybe you could make an overall case for it? I don't think it, or a plethora of other similar inequality issues, would be an equivalent to the OP one however. But you probably already appreciate that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Something that (pleasantly) surprised me was the apparently high number of comments below the video on youtube which were not dismissive of it. I expected responses to be predominantly negative, but by and large they weren't, especially the more one read through them at length. But perhaps I should not have been so surprised, given that a majority of people apparently support AA in principle at least. I guess I just didn't expect a representative sample to be responding on the internet below an arguably controversial youtube video.
    I find the video to be a little simplistic. It certainly doesn't explain why immigrants outperform natives in the US. Immigrants start with far less than natives and often don't even speak the language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Something that (pleasantly) surprised me was the apparently high number of comments below the video on youtube which were not dismissive of it. I expected responses to be predominantly negative, but by and large they weren't, especially the more one read through them at length. But perhaps I should not have been so surprised, given that a majority of people apparently support AA in principle at least. I guess I just didn't expect a representative sample to be responding on the internet below an arguably controversial youtube video.
    I find the video to be a little simplistic. It certainly doesn't explain why immigrants outperform natives in the US. Immigrants start with far less than natives and often don't even speak the language.
    It is over-simplistic, yes. And it has other flaws too, imo. If you read through the comments section, the maker of the video accepts that it is not by any means at all a thorough examination or presentation of all the relevant issues and variables.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Something that (pleasantly) surprised me was the apparently high number of comments below the video on youtube which were not dismissive of it. I expected responses to be predominantly negative, but by and large they weren't, especially the more one read through them at length. But perhaps I should not have been so surprised, given that a majority of people apparently support AA in principle at least. I guess I just didn't expect a representative sample to be responding on the internet below an arguably controversial youtube video.
    I find the video to be a little simplistic. It certainly doesn't explain why immigrants outperform natives in the US. Immigrants start with far less than natives and often don't even speak the language.
    It is over-simplistic, yes. And it has other flaws too, imo. If you read through the comments section, the maker of the video accepts that it is not by any means at all a thorough examination or presentation of all the relevant issues and variables.
    Well, I support AA and lowering barriers. However, often times people assume that a successful minority "made it" due to AA or getting favorable hiring treatment. These assumptions are hurtful and not helpful.

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    I'm not sure it's true to say that immigrants start with far less, or even just less, than natives though (by which we obviously mean residents, citizens, not native/indigenous Americans), even taking language into account. My understanding is that due to immigration policies and other factors, immigrants generally are and have been, for example, more highly qualified on average than natives of any ethnicity* and that this at least partly explains some of their success**. They are (in more than one way) not a representative sample of the populations either from which they come or which they go to, and they have also not endured the same historical and ongoing structural, institutional and/or racist disadvantages and inequalities that some minorities in the US have.

    For example I read that the majority (51%) of immigrants from China have (or had, in 2010) the equivalent of a college degree, while the percentage for China as a whole was only 4%. Percentage for Americans is 33% apparently (only 17% for blacks and 11% for hispanics). Added to which, the type of qualifications may be more useful (ie employable) in the case of immigrants. Even the willingness and endeavour to move to another country (continent indeed) and overcome the obstacles and separations this involves, may distinguish immigrants (psychologically/motivationally) from their own general, native populations, and the one they migrate into.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    Well, I support AA and lowering barriers. However, often times people assume that a successful minority "made it" due to AA or getting favourable hiring treatment. These assumptions are hurtful and not helpful.
    That is one unhelpful aspect of it, yes, apparently. It's complicated. My own view is that AA can be justified, but not every type of AA, not on a permanent basis, and only to the extent that it does or seems likely to do more good than harm, on balance, in this or that particular context and set against a backdrop of particular issues that may affect different demographics differently.



    * This is not the case, apparently, for immigrants from Mexico, who are on average much less qualified than both their own native population and the US one.

    ** Added to which, while the percentage of immigrants who succeed (economically at least) is higher than for natives (including whites) the percentage who fail and are in poverty is also greater than for natives, so the pattern is different (has a greater statistical range) for immigrants, I read.
    Last edited by ruby sparks; 04-12-2019 at 02:06 PM.

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    I was expecting a bunch of Asian runners to show up and start blowing past the white people at some point. But I guess this is one of those times where Asians are white people for the sake of the narrative.

    How many white people here have had some old dude hand them a bunch of money?

    My father was the child of immigrants and was the first in his family to go to college. I have inherited nothing but an expectation I would make something of myself.

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