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Thread: Failed prophecy.

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Failed prophecy.

    It seems odd that failed prophecies such as the return of Jesus within the lifetimes of the first generation of Christians (those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom) were included in the Gospels given that by the time oral transmission was put down in writing, some decades after, the prophesy had already failed to transpire as described and as promised.



    “For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)''


    Am I missing something?

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    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    ... snip...

    Am I missing something?
    Maybe another myth... The Wandering Jew... is how the Bible apologists 'prove' it is true.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/wandering-Jew

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Yes, the wandering Jew is quite a stretch when it comes to rationalizing failed prophesy, but it would seem more sensible to edit it out in the first place, Constantine's council of Nikea, perhaps.

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    I've always heard that the wandering Jew is Kirk Douglas, and that Jesus will return in his lifetime.

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    Veteran Member Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    The various prophecies of the prophets Jeremiah, Isiah, Ezekiel, found in the latter parts of the books of the prophets were grand, great, and did not happen at all. Jerusalem did not become center of a holy world order as prophesied. Ignoring failed Bible prophecies is an old, old habit.
    Cheerful Charlie

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    It seems odd that failed prophecies such as the return of Jesus within the lifetimes of the first generation of Christians (those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom) were included in the Gospels given that by the time oral transmission was put down in writing, some decades after, the prophesy had already failed to transpire as described and as promised.



    “For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)''


    Am I missing something?
    Biblical literalism and inerrantism as philosophies did not exist at the time when these documents were first becoming transcribed. That was later. Indeed, there are a few verses that don't make sense unless some of the people contemporary to them were challenging the continued validity of the Hebrew Scriptures.

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    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Am I missing something?
    No. It appears early Christians actually thought he was coming back imminently.

    After he didn't, my guess is that there was a period of time involving some wavering and quite a bit of doublethink and cognitive dissonance of the anciently superstitious variety. But eventually, probably gradually, things got reinterpreted without the having to let go of the basic nutty idea. It's what generally happens with duff prophecies, right up until modern times. Don't see a huge, inherent problem? Ok, then for you there is no huge, inherent problem. Reset, activate gullibility function, and resume.

    Whatever you do, do not repeat not make the rather obvious connection between the failure of the event to happen and the chances of all the other supposed woo stuff being accurate and correct either.
    Last edited by ruby sparks; 04-12-2019 at 11:51 PM.

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Am I missing something?
    No. It appears early Christians actually thought he was coming back imminently.

    After he didn't, my guess is that there was a period of time involving some wavering and quite a bit of doublethink and cognitive dissonance of the anciently superstitious variety. But eventually, probably gradually, things got reinterpreted without the having to let go of the basic nutty idea. It's what generally happens with duff prophecies, right up until modern times. Don't see a huge, inherent problem? Ok, then for you there is no huge, inherent problem. Reset, activate gullibility function, and resume.

    Whatever you do, do not repeat not make the rather obvious connection between the failure of the event to happen and the chances of all the other supposed woo stuff being accurate and correct either.
    That seems likely. With the added element of poor rigour when it comes to consistency, logic and reason, perhaps.

    You'd think that Constantine and His council of Bishops could have done a better job of it. Not to mention the councils that followed.

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    It seems odd that failed prophecies such as the return of Jesus within the lifetimes of the first generation of Christians (those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom) were included in the Gospels given that by the time oral transmission was put down in writing, some decades after, the prophesy had already failed to transpire as described and as promised.



    “For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)''


    Am I missing something?
    Biblical literalism and inerrantism as philosophies did not exist at the time when these documents were first becoming transcribed. That was later. Indeed, there are a few verses that don't make sense unless some of the people contemporary to them were challenging the continued validity of the Hebrew Scriptures.
    Didn't the first generation of Christians take it literally, a literal objective return of Jesus come to usher in the Kingdom of God on Earth?

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    It seems odd that failed prophecies such as the return of Jesus within the lifetimes of the first generation of Christians (those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom) were included in the Gospels given that by the time oral transmission was put down in writing, some decades after, the prophesy had already failed to transpire as described and as promised.



    “For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)''


    Am I missing something?
    Biblical literalism and inerrantism as philosophies did not exist at the time when these documents were first becoming transcribed. That was later. Indeed, there are a few verses that don't make sense unless some of the people contemporary to them were challenging the continued validity of the Hebrew Scriptures.
    Didn't the first generation of Christians take it literally, a literal objective return of Jesus come to usher in the Kingdom of God on Earth?
    Of course. Presuming our portrait of the lot is accurate in any way. But they didn't keep written records at all as near as anyone can tell. This all began as oral tradition. Not unusual for a Roman mystery cult.

    By the early 3nd century, there were a lot of books going around, many "holy forgeries", no direct witnesses to anything, and no modern standards of documentary evidence. I doubt the inconsistency would have bothered anyone, if they thought about it at all.

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