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Thread: Progressives and The Venezuelan Political Tactics

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    Progressives and The Venezuelan Political Tactics

    It looks like some progressives are taking from the Venezuelan playbook. Pay for support by promising free everything and taxing the upper class to pay for it.

    Somehow our progressives think taxing the rich will pat for it all. Get the pitchforks and go after those veil rich people. Flipside of the Trump fear mongering.

    universal health care, forgiving all student loan debt, universal child care have been discussed and more to come.

    Progressives seem to have little to say on infrastructure.

    It is never free, somebody has to work to pay for it.

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    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    If you think universal healthcare and student loan forgiveness caused Venezuela's collapse, then you're opinion on the issue is far too stupid to address.
    ITMFA

    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

    You submit to tyranny when you renounce truth. - Timothy Snyder

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    If you think universal healthcare and student loan forgiveness caused Venezuela's collapse, then you're opinion on the issue is far too stupid to address.
    No you fool. Promising the people free everything and ruining the economy trying to do it. The old get rid of the rich and all is well paradigm.

    The outstanding student loan and an anticipated addition for free education debt is around $1 trillion dollars.

    Universal health carte like expanding Medicaid would require user payments like today. Everything can not come from taxes. In China international athlete's hand over a large part of earnings to the state. Should we do that to wealthy pro athlete's? Should somebody getting rich playing golf while teachers struggle be allowed? Point being where would it end? At some point commitments and resources do not line up, as in Venezuela.

    France is looking more like a failing socialist system.

    Do you want to get rid of the free market system and go to a socialist system. That is where progressives are heading.

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    So all countries with universal healthcare end up like Venezuela. That's as fucking stupid as saying all free market countries and up like Somalia.

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    Veteran Member Ford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    So all countries with universal healthcare end up like Venezuela.
    That's the fall-back position for wingers. They point to Venezuela, because they'd look ridiculous saying "universal health care? You wanna end up like Norway???!!!"

    Or Finland. Sweden. Denmark. The Netherlands. Switzerland. Canada. Etc.

    They have to point to Venezuela because that's pretty much all they've got. And yes, it's fucking stupid.

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    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    What's more likely to ruin this nation's economy is the republican propensity to spend and spend while continually cutting taxes, especially on the wealthy.
    ITMFA

    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

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    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    Since there is nothing here about presidential politics, I have moved this thread to Political Discussions.
    ITMFA

    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

    You submit to tyranny when you renounce truth. - Timothy Snyder

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    If you think universal healthcare and student loan forgiveness caused Venezuela's collapse, then you're opinion on the issue is far too stupid to address.
    For years I have been pointing out myriad ways leftists on here have been trying to dress up eat-the-rich as a good idea. He's not just talking about UHC and student loan forgiveness.

    Besides, note where I stand on these:

    UHC: From a social point I consider it a good idea. I'm opposed because I think it will go badly, not because I think it's a bad thing. We can't even fix the UHC systems we have, we shouldn't be looking to add more!

    Student loan forgiveness: There are multiple issues here:

    Loans where the students didn't know what is up (plenty of these cases at the for-profit schools), forgive, take it out of the hides of the people that were running them. Doubly so for the brighter students where the schools simply forged the signatures rather than even trick them into signing.

    Low-value degrees, nope. There are far too many with degrees that are of little market value.

    I would like to see one big change to how it works, though: Student loan repayment should be tied to your taxable income. Your loan payments are capped at x% of AGI over the poverty line. Payments of this amount are considered current even if that's less than the interest. (Obviously, if the payment is too low it will take you longer to pay it off.)

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    Formerly Joedad
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    It looks like some progressives are taking from the Venezuelan playbook. Pay for support by promising free everything and taxing the upper class to pay for it.

    Somehow our progressives think taxing the rich will pat for it all. Get the pitchforks and go after those veil rich people. Flipside of the Trump fear mongering.

    universal health care, forgiving all student loan debt, universal child care have been discussed and more to come.

    Progressives seem to have little to say on infrastructure.

    It is never free, somebody has to work to pay for it.
    Lately you're beginning to sound more and more like people I know personally who have benefited greatly from progressive legislation. And now that they have their's, they want to keep it all for themselves and turn into right wing fear mongers. These people are merely opportunistic assholes who don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    No you fool. Promising the people free everything and ruining the economy trying to do it. The old get rid of the rich and all is well paradigm.
    Venezuela ruined its economy by relying on high oil prices and Cuban largesse, not by taxing the rich and giving everything away for free, so your Venezuelan example is wrongheaded.

    If your point is that resources for programs (progressive or regressive, liberal or conservative) have to come from somewhere, and that the requisite resources for the proposals are likely to "ruin or alter the economy in some undesirable way, you have a real point. However, restricting that point to "progressive" when current Republican or conservative policies are also just as resource poor makes your argument appear less rational and more partisan-driven stupidity.

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