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Thread: Media treatment of Bernie Sanders: a story in pictures

  1. Top | #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    I’ve been quite clear about why I am hoping that Sanders is not the Democratic nominee. First: He’s too old. And he’s really showing his age. If I knew nothing else about him, that would give me a good reason to look elsewhere. That’s also a strong reason to be concerned about Biden and also about Warren. Of those 3, Warren has aged far better.
    It helps that she is significantly younger than Bernie and Joe.

    Big difference between early and late 70s.

    Bernie doesn’t play well with others. That works well enough for provocateurs but not for leaders. Look at how poorly Trump works with his own party which holds a majority or his own handpicked cabinet. I don’t see Sanders as someone who could work well with foreign leaders.
    That is a very good point. We still have a separation of powers and he would be significantly to the left even of the Democratic caucus in House and Senate.

    Sanders is only a Democrat when he wants to run for POTUS. He lacks the leadership skills to form his own party.
    There is also the Duverger's Law.

  2. Top | #142
    Veteran Member blastula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
    As with everything Sanders did, it was the Wheel Of Fortune strategy. If someone bids $100, raise it to $101.
    Well, that's where you're WRONG.


    (View video on YouTube)

  3. Top | #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    But it's not. Despite our current Fearless Cheeto, America is actually a democracy. One must be able to work with others in order to accomplish anything.
    Where are you getting this notion that Bernie doesn't play well with others from? Is it because he calls out government corruption regardless of its source? Is it because he challenged Hillary Clinton in 2015?

    He's good at telling other people what he thinks and what he thinks they should think. Not the same thing.
    That's every politician everywhere. The question is do you agree with what he stands for. He makes clear policy statements on which you can vote for or against him. That's refreshing. He's not just blowing smoke and empty platitudes like so many other phony politicians.

    There is no 'Us' for Bernie Sanders anymore than there's an 'us' for Trump. He's literally the flip side of the same counterfeit coin that is Trump.
    Explain this. Where are you getting this notion from? Because Bernie appeals to the people and is a populist? That plus age, race and gender are the only things these two have in common. This is false equivocation to the highest degree.

    Change is slow; change is hard. Bernie is one of the malefactors you speak of. Plus break the word down: male + factor. It's time for a woman.
    Oh I see. Is this just all about gender for you? What if a female politician took all the same positions as Bernie (Warren isn't too far off; AOC isn't too far off but is more into the identity politics stuff). Would you like that person? Is this just a genmder thing for you? What if Bernie came out as a trans woman? Would that bring you onside?

    Bernie ain't no FDR and I don't give a rat's ass what name's on the party.
    I think Yang is closer to FDR. Bernie isn't far off though (same with Warren). He's definitely closer than others on that debate stage.

    Clinton isn't running; relieving student debt did not originate with Bernie. I know he's older than Methusela but not every good idea originated with Sanders. Or any. Very little of what he espouses now wasn't mainstream REPUBLICAN platform 60 years ago.
    And yet he's on the far left now. Why are you pushing against his policies? Come leftward.

  4. Top | #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Sanders doesn't play nice with corporations that want to control congress. So yeah, that could become an issue for him. With Warren riding shotgun as his VP things might actually get changed.
    True that.

    I don’t see Sanders as someone who could work well with foreign leaders.
    From where we stand now simply having a President who doesn't shove other heads of state out of the way might earn him the Nobel prize. His solution to the border crisis is to reach out instinctively to meet with the leaders of Central American countries.
    I see no basis whatsoever for any claim of Sanders not working well with foreign leaders. Where would such an idea come from? He seems perfectly reasonable to me. I'm foreign to the US.

    Yes he is a maverick and having gone up against Hillary he's the defacto leader of the progressive movement. Without his untiring initiative the Dems wouldn't now be calling for the $15 min wage or UHC. In fact neither would it have been enacted in several states. He's gotten more individual donations from a broader swath of the country than any other candidate by far. Both the left and the right want a fighter and Bernie's just that. And he'll attract Trump voters because he's all that and stands on principles shared by the common man.
    Bingo.

  5. Top | #145
    Veteran Member blastula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    That tweet is fair, but the article otherwise seemed too negative on Sanders. This article documents some of the Times author's history of biased coverage of Sanders.

    Sydney Ember’s Secret Sources | FAIR

  6. Top | #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Yes he is a maverick and having gone up against Hillary he's the defacto leader of the progressive movement. Without his untiring initiative the Dems wouldn't now be calling for the $15 min wage or UHC.
    Jesus walking on the water. Dems have been "calling" for UHC for forty fucking years. As well as a rise in the minimum wage. Neither of these are Sanders' policies nor are they necessarily all that "progressive." They have been central policy planks since Kennedy at the very least.

    Both the left and the right want a fighter and Bernie's just that.
    Um, no, he clearly is not. He's known as the "Amendment King" in Congress, not the "fighter." He does precisely the opposite of fighting. He would basically trade his vote/support for a bill in exchange for taking on his own pet projects.

    Plus, a real fighter knows when to throw in the towel. Sanders knew he couldn't possibly beat Clinton in March of 2016, yet instead of getting out then and becoming an asset to beating Trump, he stayed for no other reason than ego (and probably a hefty dose of spite). Had he left then, we more than likely would never have had Trump in the first place.

    And he'll attract Trump voters
    A cranky, "eastern Jew" is going to attract Trump voters? He doesn't have either Hillary Clinton to bash or the Russians to back him. Well, not in the way he'd need them (i.e., against Trump, instead of against his fellow primary opponents).

    because he's all that and stands on principles shared by the common man.
    Once again (and hopefully for the last time) the "common man" didn't vote for Trump; they voted for Clinton overwhelmingly.

  7. Top | #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by blastula View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
    As with everything Sanders did, it was the Wheel Of Fortune strategy. If someone bids $100, raise it to $101.
    Well, that's where you're WRONG.
    Bernie lost too, remember?

  8. Top | #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Yes he is a maverick and having gone up against Hillary he's the defacto leader of the progressive movement. Without his untiring initiative the Dems wouldn't now be calling for the $15 min wage or UHC.
    Jesus walking on the water. Dems have been "calling" for UHC for forty fucking years. As well as a rise in the minimum wage. Neither of these are Sanders' policies nor are they necessarily all that "progressive." They have been central policy planks since Kennedy at the very least.
    That doesn't refute my case. Sanders brought these issues to the forefront and gave them momentum. He didn't come to the Democratic party so much as the Democratic party came to him. Truman, Roosevelt, Jack as well as Ted Kennedy would appreciate that. What do you mean they're not "progressive"? That's true elsewhere in the world but we're talking about in the US.

    Both the left and the right want a fighter and Bernie's just that.
    Um, no, he clearly is not. He's known as the "Amendment King" in Congress, not the "fighter." He does precisely the opposite of fighting. He would basically trade his vote/support for a bill in exchange for taking on his own pet projects.
    Hogwash. Passing amendment to bills, especially when the opposing party is the majority, is an excellent strategy. And he's rated one of the best. It's part of the sausage making process. Not the trivial pursuit you try to debase it as. You can look at his record here if you care to.

    Plus, a real fighter knows when to throw in the towel. Sanders knew he couldn't possibly beat Clinton in March of 2016, yet instead of getting out then and becoming an asset to beating Trump, he stayed for no other reason than ego (and probably a hefty dose of spite). Had he left then, we more than likely would never have had Trump in the first place.
    And the Clinton campaign bears no blame for this? He got shafted. It's too bad Hillary is so easy to expose. Her forced candidacy was a train wreck from the beginning.

    And he'll attract Trump voters
    A cranky, "eastern Jew" is going to attract Trump voters? He doesn't have either Hillary Clinton to bash or the Russians to back him. Well, not in the way he'd need them (i.e., against Trump, instead of against his fellow primary opponents).
    You confuse cranky with genuine intensity. He's running on principle. Not constant triangulation. And the polls said he could have won against Trump in 2016. You seem to be the one who has trouble with him being what he is even though he never emphasizes his heritage or his religious beliefs. And anyone who tries to make it an issue in the campaign will be exposed as a bigot. ETA - And BTW, who would have guessed plain folks in the midwest would fall for a New York real estate developer/playboy antichrist?

    because he's all that and stands on principles shared by the common man.
    Once again (and hopefully for the last time) the "common man" didn't vote for Trump; they voted for Clinton overwhelmingly.
    By common man I didn't mean those with a 4 year college degree. I mean the one's who are struggling to get by earning half what those make and who blame the corporations who control congress. But in 2020 it's certainty they'll also turn out for Sanders if the alternative is Trump.
    Last edited by Treedbear; 08-14-2019 at 06:49 PM.

  9. Top | #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    That doesn't refute my case.
    It does precisely that.

    Sanders brought these issues to the forefront
    No, he didn't. Hillary did decades ago and Obama finally was able to get it into motion in Congress. It has never left the forefront. Don't mistake your ignorance or lack of attention for something significant.

    He didn't come to the Democratic party so much as the Democratic party came to him.
    What? That's utter nonsense. The DNC not only did not "come to him," they--and we, the Democratic voters--massively rejected him. He couldn't even muster more than 5-6% turnout among all Democrats in spite of the fact that he was spearheading a "revolution" remember?

    What do you mean they're not "progressive"?
    I meant they're not radical left policies. They're Democratic policies. Always have been. They have literally been on every single Democratic platform since Kennedy at least in one form or another. Sanders has done nothing except taken Democratic policies and bid a dollar more on them. Hillary was pushing for a $12 minimum, Sanders said $15.

    It's the exact same proposal--to significantly raise the minimum wage--the only difference was in the amount.

    So, if I were to enter the race and say, "I promise to raise the minimum wage to $20" does that mean I am the most progressive and the one bringing this issue to the forefront?

    No, it does not. It means I'm just randomly one-upping the policies of my opponent to make myself look better by comparison and saying bullshit nonsense like, "I'm just getting the conversation going!"

    Only extremely weak-minded people or those starved for a messiah would fall for such bullshit. Unfortunately, Democrats have such people on their side too.

    Both the left and the right want a fighter and Bernie's just that.
    Um, no, he clearly is not. He's known as the "Amendment King" in Congress, not the "fighter." He does precisely the opposite of fighting. He would basically trade his vote/support for a bill in exchange for taking on his own pet projects.
    Hogwash.
    Won't change the fact that it's a still a pig.

    Passing amendment to bills, especially when the opposing party is the majority, is an excellent strategy.
    Strategy, yes, but it's not what a fighter does. It's a compromise. It's avoiding the fight. A fighter stands their ground and fights, not says, "Fine, you can have my vote, but I want the F-35s!"

    Plus, a real fighter knows when to throw in the towel. Sanders knew he couldn't possibly beat Clinton in March of 2016, yet instead of getting out then and becoming an asset to beating Trump, he stayed for no other reason than ego (and probably a hefty dose of spite). Had he left then, we more than likely would never have had Trump in the first place.
    And the Clinton campaign bears no blame for this?
    How would the Clinton campaign be to blame for him not leaving the stage when the audience said, "Get off the stage!"

    He got shafted.
    Ah, that old chestnut.

    You confuse cranky with genuine intensity.
    You confuse your own opinion and ignored how he'll be eviscerated by the right if he were to be alone against Trump.

    And the polls said he could have won against Trump in 2016.
    Based on? Did he ever once face Trump head-on? No, he did not. Instead he was used by the GOP, the Trump campaign AND Russia to torpedo Clinton. That alone should tell you who they wanted to run against and who they did not.

    You seem to be the one who has trouble with him being what he is even though he never emphasizes his heritage or his religious beliefs. And anyone who tries to make it an issue in the campaign will be exposed as a bigot.
    Heavens forfend! Trump supporters being exposed as bigots!!!??? How will the country ever recover?

    because he's all that and stands on principles shared by the common man.
    Once again (and hopefully for the last time) the "common man" didn't vote for Trump; they voted for Clinton overwhelmingly.
    By common man I didn't mean those with a 4 year college degree. I mean the one's who are struggling to get by earning half what those make and who blame the corporations who control congress.
    Yeah, you didn't read that article carefully enough. It wasn't the people who were "struggling to get by" that voted for Trump either. Unless you consider earning $70,000 to $100,000 in the midwest and rust belt "struggling."

    But in 2020 it's certainty they'll also turn out for Sanders if the alternative is Trump.
    Religious delusions run deep.

  10. Top | #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blastula View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
    As with everything Sanders did, it was the Wheel Of Fortune strategy. If someone bids $100, raise it to $101.
    Well, that's where you're WRONG.
    Bernie lost too, remember?
    But not on Wheel of Fortune. This is how you lose there.


    (View video on YouTube)

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