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Thread: Media treatment of Bernie Sanders: a story in pictures

  1. Top | #21
    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldtraveller View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Does anybody have any reaction at all to the main purpose of this thread, which is to reveal that the media are already transparently lying in their reporting of Sanders? We can have a thread about his overall chances, but this one is supposed to be about the media's treatment of him.
    Most of us probably don't care. We're what, almost 18 months from the actual election? So much is going to change between now and then. I like some of Bernie's platform. I don't like the way his followers handled themselves in 2016. I think because of his rabid base, which he has only made mild attempts to distance himself from, is poisonous to the DNC and the democratic process overall.

    I don't actually care that much (which is not to say not at all) who wins the Dem primary, they will get my vote. It is a shitty position to be in, but the shitheel in the WH is just that bad. I actually think that if Bernie (or Biden, whom I used to like a lot more, and probably still prefer over Bernis) wins, he has less chance of beating the orange shitgibbon than most of the others, since so many people are turned off by him.

    You still haven't posted any evidence that his popularity has increased "exponentially" since 2016. Based on my experience, it's been the opposite, but it probably depends on the people around me more than anything else. Got any polls to demonstrate this exponential skyrocketing?
    The place to look isn't in his personal numbers, but in the acceptance of policies he forcefully advocated: Medicare for all, free higher education, student debt forgiveness, gay and trans rights, and so on. He didn't invent these, but he has always supported them. His popularity was formidable in 2016 when not all of these positions were at the forefront, and now they are becoming regular topics of conversation that all mainstream news outlets are asking of all candidates. He draws enormous crowds of supporters wherever he speaks, and raises many times more in individual small donations than the other candidates can get from corporate and financial backers.

    There's also the fact that he is the current front-runner in a field of 743 candidates gunning for the nomination.

    Bernie Sanders as a candidate and a person could scarcely be more different than Joe Biden. If you see the latter as more likely to beat Trump than the former, but don't see any ideological differences between them because they both look like Statler and Waldorf from the Muppets, you're placing perceived (and always, always inaccurate) success against the opposition over actual policies. But then, you said you preferred Biden to Bernie, "probably", as if they are somehow of the same ilk and it's a genuine head-scratcher to decide which one you like more. They aren't on the same spectrum with their agendas.

  2. Top | #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    They aren't on the same spectrum with their agendas.
    Unless you consider their #1 agenda item.

  3. Top | #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldtraveller View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Does anybody have any reaction at all to the main purpose of this thread, which is to reveal that the media are already transparently lying in their reporting of Sanders? We can have a thread about his overall chances, but this one is supposed to be about the media's treatment of him.
    Most of us probably don't care. We're what, almost 18 months from the actual election? So much is going to change between now and then. I like some of Bernie's platform. I don't like the way his followers handled themselves in 2016. I think because of his rabid base, which he has only made mild attempts to distance himself from, is poisonous to the DNC and the democratic process overall.

    I don't actually care that much (which is not to say not at all) who wins the Dem primary, they will get my vote. It is a shitty position to be in, but the shitheel in the WH is just that bad. I actually think that if Bernie (or Biden, whom I used to like a lot more, and probably still prefer over Bernis) wins, he has less chance of beating the orange shitgibbon than most of the others, since so many people are turned off by him.

    You still haven't posted any evidence that his popularity has increased "exponentially" since 2016. Based on my experience, it's been the opposite, but it probably depends on the people around me more than anything else. Got any polls to demonstrate this exponential skyrocketing?
    The place to look isn't in his personal numbers, but in the acceptance of policies he forcefully advocated: Medicare for all, free higher education, student debt forgiveness, gay and trans rights, and so on. He didn't invent these, but he has always supported them. His popularity was formidable in 2016 when not all of these positions were at the forefront, and now they are becoming regular topics of conversation that all mainstream news outlets are asking of all candidates. He draws enormous crowds of supporters wherever he speaks, and raises many times more in individual small donations than the other candidates can get from corporate and financial backers.

    There's also the fact that he is the current front-runner in a field of 743 candidates gunning for the nomination.

    Bernie Sanders as a candidate and a person could scarcely be more different than Joe Biden. If you see the latter as more likely to beat Trump than the former, but don't see any ideological differences between them because they both look like Statler and Waldorf from the Muppets, you're placing perceived (and always, always inaccurate) success against the opposition over actual policies. But then, you said you preferred Biden to Bernie, "probably", as if they are somehow of the same ilk and it's a genuine head-scratcher to decide which one you like more. They aren't on the same spectrum with their agendas.
    BTW: how is student debt forgiveness a left wing issue? College graduates average 65% more in salary than non-college educated people. If anything, this seems to me to be another transfer from working class people to the evil higher class people.

  4. Top | #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Trump beat HRC who clobbered Sanders. Why would anyone think Sanders has much of a chance to beat Trump?
    1. His popularity in the states that gave Trump the win over Clinton

    2. The fact that it's no longer 2016 and support for both Sanders and his positions have exponentially grown since then

    3. Lack of comparability between the primaries and the general makes your reduction to "A beats B who beats C" overly simplistic
    Perhaps, but my analysis is not driven by wishful thinking. There is no evidence that overall support for Sanders has increased, let alone exponentially increased. Hell, as soon as Sleepy Joe Biden enters the race, Sanders' supports drops significantly.

  5. Top | #25
    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Trump beat HRC who clobbered Sanders. Why would anyone think Sanders has much of a chance to beat Trump?
    This:
    55% will definitely not vote for Trump. 28% definitely will.

    They can fight over the remaining 17%, but the outcome is foregone if fair elections are held in the current sentimental climate. Even electoral college optimization probably can't overcome those kinds of numbers. Anyone on the B-team (Beto, Biden, Booker, Buttigieg, Bennet) could beat him right now as could most if not all of the women in the race.
    I am hoping some of Trumpy's diehard followers see the writing on the wall, and stay home. If that should happen, there's probably nothing that all Putin's horses and all Putin's men can do to put Trumpy together again.

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    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    They aren't on the same spectrum with their agendas.
    Unless you consider their #1 agenda item.
    Which is...?

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryBosch
    BTW: how is student debt forgiveness a left wing issue? College graduates average 65% more in salary than non-college educated people. If anything, this seems to me to be another transfer from working class people to the evil higher class people.
    Because leftists understand what the word "class" means

  7. Top | #27
    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    The only mention of Bernie being Jew occurs directly before a link to an article about the income revealed on his tax returns:







    Jewish Bolshevism

    Jewish Bolshevism, also Judeo–Bolshevism, is an anti-communist and antisemitic canard, which alleges that the Jews were the originators of the Russian Revolution in 1917 and that they held the primary power among the Bolsheviks. Similarly, the conspiracy theory of Jewish Communism implies that Jews have dominated the Communist movements in the world, and is related to The Zionist Occupation Government conspiracy theory (ZOG), which asserts that Jews control world politics.[1]

    In 1917, after the October revolution, the catchword was the title of the pamphlet, The Jewish Bolshevism, which featured in the racist propaganda of the anti-communist White movement forces during the Russian Civil War (1918–22). The Nazi Party in Germany and the German-American Bund in the United States propagated the anti-Semitic theory to their followers, sympathisers, and fellow travellers during the 1930s.[2][3][4][5] In Poland, "Judeo-Bolshevism", known as "Żydokomuna", was an antisemitic stereotype that was widely spread during the interwar period.[6]

    The expressions "Jewish Bolshevism", "Jewish Communism", and the "ZOG" are used by the far-right as catchwords for the false assertions that Communism is a Jewish conspiracy.[7]

  8. Top | #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post

    BTW: how is student debt forgiveness a left wing issue? College graduates average 65% more in salary than non-college educated people. If anything, this seems to me to be another transfer from working class people to the evil higher class people.
    Because the poor and middle class are required to go deeply into debt to take advantage of a college education whereas the rich just pay for it.

    What is it with you and reflexively hating any proposal that would help the poor and middle class?

    The debt is crippling in multiple ways. I graduated into a recession, as did my peers. Those with debt were forced to join the workforce oftentimes taking jobs that didn't even require a degree at very low salaries, and this has stunted their future earnings significantly.

    Me? I just went to went to grad school entirely on my father's dime to smoke weed and play video games for a while, graduated that at a good time, and now have lapped those people's salary in a matter of a few years, and some are no where near paying off their undergraduate loans. And to boot, they are stuck in suboptimal career paths.

    I suppose they could have done the same thing I did, it would have just added another 60k to 100k to their debt. But you know those poor people just are irresponsible and don't think long term.



    But yeah Harry, debt forgiveness *hurts the poor and helps the rich*.

    War is peace.

  9. Top | #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post

    BTW: how is student debt forgiveness a left wing issue? College graduates average 65% more in salary than non-college educated people. If anything, this seems to me to be another transfer from working class people to the evil higher class people.
    Because the poor and middle class are required to go deeply into debt to take advantage of a college education whereas the rich just pay for it.

    What is it with you and reflexively hating any proposal that would help the poor and middle class?

    The debt is crippling in multiple ways. I graduated into a recession, as did my peers. Those with debt were forced to join the workforce oftentimes taking jobs that didn't even require a degree at very low salaries, and this has stunted their future earnings significantly.

    Me? I just went to went to grad school entirely on my father's dime to smoke weed and play video games for a while, graduated that at a good time, and now have lapped those people's salary in a matter of a few years, and some are no where near paying off their undergraduate loans. And to boot, they are stuck in suboptimal career paths.

    I suppose they could have done the same thing I did, it would have just added another 60k to 100k to their debt. But you know those poor people just are irresponsible and don't think long term.



    But yeah Harry, debt forgiveness *hurts the poor and helps the rich*.

    War is peace.
    ??? Wow are you sensitive here! I said that I don't view it as a left wing issue. It's an issue that primarily benefits higher wage earners. I've always valued lower costs for education. I have three kids in high school. It would save me hundreds of thousands of dollars. I could buy five blade runners this summer rather than two. Education primarily benefits the user and his/her family. So, I think that they should bear some costs for it. But society benefits also. So some kind of shared cost structure makes sense (subsidization, higher grants, and etc.)

  10. Top | #30
    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Bosch View Post

    BTW: how is student debt forgiveness a left wing issue? College graduates average 65% more in salary than non-college educated people. If anything, this seems to me to be another transfer from working class people to the evil higher class people.
    Because the poor and middle class are required to go deeply into debt to take advantage of a college education whereas the rich just pay for it.

    What is it with you and reflexively hating any proposal that would help the poor and middle class?

    The debt is crippling in multiple ways. I graduated into a recession, as did my peers. Those with debt were forced to join the workforce oftentimes taking jobs that didn't even require a degree at very low salaries, and this has stunted their future earnings significantly.

    Me? I just went to went to grad school entirely on my father's dime to smoke weed and play video games for a while, graduated that at a good time, and now have lapped those people's salary in a matter of a few years, and some are no where near paying off their undergraduate loans. And to boot, they are stuck in suboptimal career paths.

    I suppose they could have done the same thing I did, it would have just added another 60k to 100k to their debt. But you know those poor people just are irresponsible and don't think long term.



    But yeah Harry, debt forgiveness *hurts the poor and helps the rich*.

    War is peace.
    ??? Wow are you sensitive here! I said that I don't view it as a left wing issue. It's an issue that primarily benefits higher wage earners. I've always valued lower costs for education. I have three kids in high school. It would save me hundreds of thousands of dollars. I could buy five blade runners this summer rather than two. Education primarily benefits the user and his/her family. So, I think that they should bear some costs for it. But society benefits also. So some kind of shared cost structure makes sense (subsidization, higher grants, and etc.)
    The reason it's an issue that benefits higher wage earners is because it's currently so fucking expensive to go to college that only people with an existing level of financial flexibility can even make it to the point of getting a loan, which is exactly the problem that free university education is aiming to solve

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