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Thread: Media treatment of Bernie Sanders: a story in pictures

  1. Top | #161
    Veteran Member Deepak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    BACK ON TOPIC.

    Brian Williams, in his segment about the #MyBernieStory hashtag trending on Twitter, decided that the most representative and balanced tweet to show as an example was this, a tweet that could have easily been ripped directly from a Koyaanisqatsi polemic:



    Who is this horse, and why is his anonymous tweet being featured on national news? Well.

    Hyello fellow Amyerican citizen, I would like to point out that The Bots create much problem for democracy, as you can tell from my reference to Wheel of Fortune - Amyerica's Game - where other fellow citizens bid amounts in dollars. Am quite connected to ordinary citizen's desires, da?

  2. Top | #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    They caved under the onslaught of lobbying and the Republican steamroller.
    Says the amature from the cheap seats who's never spent a day in politics and has no clue what he's talking about.

    Everybody's a fucking director.

    The fight that you are talking about has been raging for almost the entire twentieth and twenty-first centuries and was FINALLY won, in part, by Obama, but only after extensive compromise and on the shoulders of those decades prior. Sanders himself conceded openly that the ONLY way he would be able to get any of his proposals implemented would be if he had 80% of the entire American populace behind him after being elected--and then that only as a starting point, not a fait accompli.

    You're judging Sisyphus for not just pushing the boulder over that final top part there. I mean, why wouldn't he just do that?

    It would have been a strong signal to the Bernie fans that she'd brought one of them on board.
    Once again, the "Bernie" fans consisted of only around 5-6% of the Democratic voters, which, normally (when there isn't a massive clandestine influencing campaign being conducted by a foreign nation) is statistically irrelevant. As it stood and in the end, the overwhelming majority of them voted for Clinton. But of note is the fact that 12% of Bernie voters voted for Trump. That's the company you keep.

    Plus, the overwhelming choice from Democratic voters was Warren as her VP, but two women on the same first-ever Female POTUS ticket would be a tremendous hurdle to overcome, regardless of 30% of Dem voters backing the idea. There are, unfortunately, far too many "conservative" Democrats (read: sexist) still in the party; an issue that she had already faced and known about since 2008.

    And as this in depth PBS piece on sexism in the 2016 election reported:

    Sanders developed a loyal following, but it mainly consisted of young people, including a vanguard of “Bernie Bros,” and older white men.

    Not all male Sanders supporters are flagrant sexists, of course. Most aren’t. They responded to Sanders’ economic message and unvarnished campaign trail persona. He successfully cast himself as an outsider candidate despite his decades-long career in Congress, which is no small feat. The 74-year-old socialist senator from Vermont turned out to be a much better fundraiser than anybody expected. Bernie struck a nerve. At the same time, it’s not a coincidence that so many white men chose him over the female alternative.

    “I don’t think there’s any question that there’s gender bias,” said Ryan Geiser, 29, an ardent Sanders supporter from Bellevue, Pa. Geiser, who is white, said that he didn’t base his decision on gender, but knows plenty of Sanders supporters who did. “If Sanders had gone up against a man who had the same politics as Hillary, he wouldn’t have done as well because more white men would have voted for the other guy.” There is strong evidence that subconscious bias shaped the way white men viewed Clinton in the primaries. So just imagine how much sexism could impact the general election, now that Clinton is running against Donald Trump.
    And then quadruple it if the ticket had been Clinton/Warren (or, as Trump would have put it, "Crooked Hillary and Pocahontas").

    What did Tim Kaine get her?
    Well, she won the popular vote by almost three million, in the third largest raw vote tally in US history, second only to the record holder, Barack Obama (nearly tying his 2012 numbers), beating every single white male Presidential candidate in history. And she did that IN SPITE OF the Comey effect and the massive Russian clandestine information warfare that weaponized both Trump and Sanders, who wasted hundreds of millions of dollars and at least six months of time and resources on a pointless civil war attack against her--and the DNC party itself--that accounts, url=https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds]single-handedly[/url], for Trump being in the WH.

    Had Sanders left the race--like all intelligent losing candidates do--at the point in the primary where it was not possible for him to win (iow, late March), he would not have caused a pointless civil war; would not have wasted everyone's time and resources on bitter infighting over policies that were not "his" in the first place and he openly admitted he couldn't implement; and would have instead meant a united front entirely focused for six months on the actual evil in the race, Donald Trump.

    In those six months, Clinton, as is so often erroneously argued, would have visited every blue state a hundred times over, so the idiotic sophistry that it was her lack of presence (in just one state) that caused her EC loss would have at least never arisen to be repeated ad nauseum by other people who don't know what they're talking about, but that would have been just a personal boon to me and others having to constantly point out how idiotic that logic actually is.

    Plus, bringing Sanders onto her platform (as with Warren) would have lost her far more votes among Democrats--particularly minorities--than she might have gained among the youth voters who didn't turn out regardless. And remember what no one ever does; Sanders went to the blue states to campaign FOR Hillary after his zombie primary destruction finally came to an end and it didn't do shit.

    Yes, I know, it's all Hillary's fault and blah blah blah idiotic gainsaying bullshit, but the problem with that knee jerk response is that, it argues first that Sanders has some sort of magical quality that would have swayed voters no matter what obstacle he had to surmount. But he couldn't surmount that obstacle among his own alleged constituents, which proves HE was ineffectual.

    Of course, when you spend a year shitting on someone and then hypocritically turn around to praise them, it's a hard slice, but then, it's also your own fucking fault that you poisoned your own well in the first place.

    Regardless and again, in spite of anyone's political acumen (or lack thereof), one need only point to the fact that the right (and the Russians) backed Sanders to win against Clinton. There would be only one reason to do that. They knew they had a much better chance to beat Sanders.

    Think about that if nothing else.

  3. Top | #163
    Veteran Member Deepak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
    Once again, the "Bernie" fans consisted of only around 5-6% of the Democratic voters, which, normally (when there isn't a massive clandestine influencing campaign being conducted by a foreign nation) is statistically irrelevant. As it stood and in the end, the overwhelming majority of them voted for Clinton. But of note is the fact that 12% of Bernie voters voted for Trump. That's the company you keep.
    And the company you keep https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2016

    Pray tell, though, why you think those votes were Clinton's birthright - since, well, most are not registered Democrats.

    And wasn't she similarly unable to surmount that obstacle among her own alleged constituents? Pray tell how Sanders 12% defection of his some 13 million primary voters is a failure, when Clinton's 8% defection of registered Democrats, against the actual evil in the race, is a resounding success.

    I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out which percentage is bigger.

  4. Top | #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepak View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
    Once again, the "Bernie" fans consisted of only around 5-6% of the Democratic voters, which, normally (when there isn't a massive clandestine influencing campaign being conducted by a foreign nation) is statistically irrelevant. As it stood and in the end, the overwhelming majority of them voted for Clinton. But of note is the fact that 12% of Bernie voters voted for Trump. That's the company you keep.
    And the company you keep https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2016
    That's just an exit poll from December of 2016.

    Pray tell, though, why you think those votes were Clinton's birthright
    Her "birthright"? What part of the fact that 2008 was both Obama's and her crucible do you not understand? Unlike the 2016 primaries, Clinton was neck and neck with Obama the entire time to the point of her actually surpassing him in the popular vote, itself representing a record turnout for the DNC. She was not only expected to run in 2016 as a result, she was encouraged.

    As incredulous as it may seem to some, the Clintons are wanted and admired and beloved by tens of millions of Democrats who have not swallowed the decades of idiotic conspiracy theories that others have.

    - since, well, most are not registered Democrats.
    Which votes are you referring to? The independents?

    And wasn't she similarly unable to surmount that obstacle among her own alleged constituents?
    Well, she won the popular vote, remember? By almost three million votes (and upwards of ten million if you count the preferences of registered voters who nevertheless did not end up casting a ballot for various non-partisan reasons).

    Pray tell how Sanders 12% defection of his some 13 million primary voters is a failure, when Clinton's 8% defection of registered Democrats, against the actual evil in the race, is a resounding success.
    So you're referring just to the percentage of pro-Sanders voters from the primaries who ended up voting for Trump and completely ignoring the points I made about how his campaign was not only attacking Clinton the whole time--causing a bitterly divisive primary civil war that he knew he couldn't possibly win as early as March--but was ALSO weaponized by the Russians and the GOP/Trump campaign.

    Iow, you're not only ironically demonstrating my point, but you are also shedding light on the fact that Sanders never went through his own general election crucible, but he did participate in the attacks against Clinton that resulted in 12% of his own loyalists voting for Trump with only 8% of Clinton's voting for Trump.

    And see, here's where your ignorance of politics glares through. The 8% is actually statistically normal. In 2012, for example, 7% of Democrats voted for Romney. In 1996, 5% voted for Dole. 11% voted for Bush.

    I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out which percentage is bigger.
    Better to figure out what caused the percentage to be bigger in the first place.

  5. Top | #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Just leaving this here as a reminder



    Interesting observation from that list. Sanders spoke in 12 states for Clinton. Of those 11 states, Clinton only won 5: Maine, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Nevada, and Colorado. Maine has an asterisk as Trump took an EV from that state in the rural area.

    She lost: Iowa, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Ohio, Wisconsin, Nebraska (for the bonus EV?). Only PA and WI were close.

  6. Top | #166
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    On the political compass I scored a -9.75, -9.75. I like Bernie way more than Hillary. Hillary has always struck me as someone who is half right and half wrong. She has shifted from conservative Democrat to now focusing on popular issues like identity politics. Look at her changing views on NAFTA, for example. No, this isn't an invitation to debate Hillary. I am talking about myself, where I stand, as an example of someone in the dreaded Far Left, where I was coming into the primary/election, and how I perceived things.

    Now, the message I received from Bernie during the primary was that he wasn't going to even bring up certain topics while competing with Hillary. He was being quite "good." Some Bernie supporters in the primary made a stink over Nevada and they may have been correct. You cannot know for sure because anyone you listen to has a political bias either for or against Clinton. Anyway, the message I received from Bernie after the primary was that I should support Clinton. It was a loud and clear message.

    Some of my socialist friends and acquaintances also made a decision to operate in the Democratic Party instead of operating outside from now on. So, they're not believing in Counterpunch much these days. Some are calling themselves liberals, even.

    Did we forget that Bernie Sanders went on the road campaigning for Clinton or did we fall for Right Wing Noise Machine that was trying to divide Democrats in order to prop up the Republicans?

    One of the many things that makes Donald Trump angry is that Bernie Sanders does not seem to hold grudges. In recent speeches, Trump has pointed to the information that has come out, through WikiLeaks’ disclosures of John Podesta’s e-mails, about the Clinton team’s attitude toward Sanders during the primaries: the slights (“doofus”), the schemes (“where would you stick the knife?”), and the eye-rolling (“socialist math”). Perhaps worst of all—at least from Trump’s point of view—was Donna Brazile’s passing along of debate questions. "Now, Bernie Sanders should be angry right? Shouldn’t he be angry?” Trump asked a crowd in Florida. He sounded a little bit puzzled—he would be so mad.

    The truth is that Bernie Sanders is very, very angry—at Donald Trump. He is angry enough to have spent weeks travelling on behalf of Hillary Clinton, speaking for her in union halls and arenas, to students and activists. When he talks, he is entirely Bernie—“We are going to fight for that democracy; we are not going to become an oligarchy”—and he hints strongly that he has done some negotiating with her before getting on the stage, and will continue to do so after, as he hopes, she is elected. When praising her positions, he often says “Secretary Clinton has told me” or “Secretary Clinton has promised,” as though he knows that it might not work, with the sort of swing audiences he is dispatched to persuade (students, working-class voters), simply to declare that taking these stands is in her nature. But he knows what he wants: for her to win. “This campaign is not a personality contest,” Sanders said near the beginning of a speech in Raleigh, North Carolina, on Thursday night. “We’re not voting for high-school president. We’re voting for the most powerful leader in the entire world.” He had been introduced by Pharrell Williams, the musician, who was now sitting on the stage with Clinton herself, as if it were an actual high-school election. Statements like that serve to remind Sanders’s supporters that they don’t need to be charmed by Hillary Clinton—he is over it, and they ought to be, too. But, if personality doesn’t matter, the person does.

    “There are many, many differences between Secretary Clinton and Mr. Trump,” Sanders told the crowd. "But there is one that is very, very profound. Are you ready for a very radical thought right now? I don’t want anyone to faint! I think we have some paramedics here”—“paramedics here” is, it turns out, an excellent phrase for demonstrating a Brooklyn accent—“but I do want to make this announcement. Are you ready for it?” The crowd indicated that it was. "All right. Madam Secretary, you correct me if I’m wrong here; I don’t want to misspeak for you—Secretary Clinton believes in science!”

    When the cheering had abated, Sanders continued, "I know I put her in a difficult position—2016, to believe in science, a little bit dangerous—but what the heck.” He then referred to her "very specific ideas” for combatting climate change, before turning to the mind of Donald Trump. “After years and years of studying the issue from a scientific perspective—I’m joking, I’m joking—he has concluded that climate change is a hoax emanating from China. Now, why he chose China and not Mexico or some Muslim country, I don’t know.”
    ...
    ...
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-d...illary-clinton

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