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Thread: What would count as proof of God

  1. Top | #31
    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharakov View Post
    So the main problem seems to be the strawman tri-omni God.

    .
    I see a much more basic problem. I see no more reason to accept as real any imaginary critter whether it be a god with limited or unlimited magical powers, King Kong, Godzilla, the Sand Man, Superman, Puff the Magic Dragon, or the Silver Surfer. Just because someone can imagine such a critter and tells others about it doesn't make it real even though some others may say, "yeah, I can buy that."

  2. Top | #32
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharakov View Post
    So the main problem seems to be the strawman tri-omni God.

    .
    I see a much more basic problem. I see no more reason to accept as real any imaginary critter whether it be a god with limited or unlimited magical powers, King Kong, Godzilla, the Sand Man, Superman, Puff the Magic Dragon, or the Silver Surfer. Just because someone can imagine such a critter and tells others about it doesn't make it real even though some others may say, "yeah, I can buy that."
    Yeah, the main problem is the persistent lack of evidence for any gods of any kind.

    When something is indistinguishable from a fictional construct, and one is surrounded by people with a penchant for imaginative fiction, it's foolish to assume that anything is non-fiction until actual evidence for it is presented.

    And the more extraordinary the claims, the more evidence is required.

    I have yet to see an argument for any gods that would not be equally applicable to a number of superheroes.

    I am not about to accept that either are real world phenomena, and find it laughable that others do.

    Being tri-omni isn't a big deal; It's certainly not a requirement for me in order to reject a god claim. Any more than it's a sticking point for the existence of a superhero that he can leap tall buildings in a single bound.

    I don't believe that there really is a man who can leap tall buildings in a single bound. But that doesn't make a man who can do whatever a spider can, one iota less implausible.

  3. Top | #33
    Quantum Hot Dog Kharakov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharakov View Post
    So the main problem seems to be the strawman tri-omni God.

    .
    I see a much more basic problem. I see no more reason to accept as real any imaginary critter whether it be a god with limited or unlimited magical powers, King Kong, Godzilla, the Sand Man, Superman, Puff the Magic Dragon, or the Silver Surfer. Just because someone can imagine such a critter and tells others about it doesn't make it real even though some others may say, "yeah, I can buy that."
    Yeah, the main problem is the persistent lack of evidence for any gods of any kind.
    Or persistent lack of mathematical and physical knowhow that would allow one to discern that the physical constants in the universe were set in one of the ways I mentioned, which would provide direct evidence that the universe (at least our portion) was created (if it was). It would simply be a lack of scientific and mathematical accumen, on the part of atheists, that led to their disbelief. Of course, learning the truth will just be another step in the right direction: but would they trust scientists who say there is a message in the physical constants of the universe, or not?

    If it costs them nothing, then maybe. Maybe they would still be suspicious. Maybe they would be curious (I'd be curious. And annoyed.).


    Of course, it could just be other beings playing a long con- beings who desire to make fun of presumptuous, uneducated atheists.


    So no claims here. Basically, if there is a hidden message, it's evidence the universe was created. Depending on what the message is (like "fuck you guys, I'm making another universe full of nice people"- think SMBC Jesus "He stops by all the time. When he came the first time, we gave him a box of chocolates. What did you guys give him?" ). But that assumes a lot.

  4. Top | #34
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    If we woke up in the morning and every religionist on the planet agreed on what a god was and every aspect of its nature and desires.

    Or, yeah, if it’s a god, it makes it happen. Ipso facto, right? It’s a god. It’s not smaller than me, it knows what to do.

  5. Top | #35
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Essentially, there are lots of things that would count as proof of gods.

    But none of them are actually going to occur, because gods don't exist.

    You might as well ask what would count as proof that the Earth is flat.

  6. Top | #36
    Formerly Joedad
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    If the ability to bring a universe into existence makes something a god, then what is a person who plants a seed in the proper conditions and brings forth an apple tree and apples? If I had the knowledge and means to bring forth a universe does that make me a god? How does that make me a god, or is that just the definition of a god?

    Gods seem to be nothing more than creatures of emotion.

  7. Top | #37
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    AIDS, might.
    I mean, if the virus really did have a sexual-preference preference like Uncle Howard insists.

    If AIDS could not be transmitted at all through moral behavior, but was 100% contagious across immoral lines. Like, you could contract the disease from sharing drug needles, but a surgeon who cut himself during surgery just never ever ever ever caught HIV from a patient. An AIDS patient who caught it from a gay prostitute could never pass it to their spouse. Blood donations never threaten ER patients, though blood-play in a BDSM session would be a suicide pact.

    Something behaving that much like a cartoon villain as the faithful insist, that might be compelling. But then, we'd have to be living in the cartoon world of the evangelical, and this conversation would be moot.

  8. Top | #38
    Contributor DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post
    So it's been asked here and within philosophy generally, what would qualify as convincing evidence of God to a skeptic not ideologically inclined to believe?

    I thought of something that would be rather compelling. Suppose one day every person on the planet simultaneously saw the face and heard the voice of God in the sky. That voice simultaneously declared to every human some personal fact unknown to anyone but that person, then also told them some personal fact unknown to anyone about a total stranger they never met along with that person's contact information so they could verify it. It wouldn't be surprising to for those who already believe to claim both facts they were told are accurate. But this would mean that every non-believing human would also verify their unique facts, which means many millions of people worldwide. While mass hallucinations can occur, they do so b/c all the people are within a particular shared context and frame of mind. That would be impossible for everyone on the planet at the same moment. I can't think of any possible explanation that wouldn't entail some form of supernatural, either God or at least some moment of unified psychic type consciousness.

    Would you find this convincing? If not, what alternative explanation could you give?
    Nothing. It's a stupid concept. If God would appear and do something, we'd just add that to science and our understanding of how the world works.

    And if God actually exists what do you think the chances are that anybody managed to nail it? I'm sure everybody is wrong. That's usually how science progresses.

  9. Top | #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Essentially, there are lots of things that would count as proof of gods.
    Such as...?

  10. Top | #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Essentially, there are lots of things that would count as proof of gods.
    Such as...?
    What about the tide going in and out?

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