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Thread: The 613 Old Testament Commandments

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    The 613 Old Testament Commandments

    The commandments pulled out of the OT. Some are reasonable and understandable, some are genocidal and violent. All concede red historically to be passed to Hebrews from god through Moses. Institutionalized slavery and servitude. Obsession with being deemed unclean by an association requiring purification.

    If you are Christian and believe the OT is the word of god here it is. No work on the Sabbath. No usery. Not6e observant Muslims have sharia compliant banks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments



    64.Not to attempt to contact the dead — Deut. 18:11
    33.To burn a city that has turned to idol worship — Deut. 13:17
    504.Purchase a Hebrew slave in accordance wi
    th the prescribed laws — Ex. 21:2
    534.Not to lend with interest — Lev. 25:37
    438.A man who had a running (unnatural urinary) issue must bring an offering (in the Temple) after he goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 15:13-14

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Inconvenient truths are best ignored, it seems.

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    And check what a ton of them have the death penalty connected. Including a communal killing of the bride whose hymen is torn before hubby (who could've plowed all the local women) climbs on top of her. And a communal killing for boys who sass their parents. Judeo-Christian heritage, anyone?

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    They are the laws of an ancient empire. Harsh, but the same is true of the other nations of the Ancient Near East. I agree it would be a disaster to try and apply them all in the present, but then, aside from the late Rachel Held Evans, who actually does that?

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    No argument there, but, of course, these are supposedly divinely inspired, by a god who is said to be just, loving, and anxious that we forgive our enemies.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    No argument there, but, of course, these are supposedly divinely inspired, by a god who is said to be just, loving, and anxious that we forgive our enemies.
    One can suppose all one likes... I suppose.

    I note that the mouthpiece of the idea that forgiveness of enemies is a virtue was an itinerant and seemingly uneducated Judean philosopher living at least five hundred years after most of the laws the OP is talking about were set to stone. He is dismissive of following said laws strictly, breaking at least four of those 613 rules himself according to the gospel accounts, and encouraging his students to do likewise. He did also say that Torah is eternal and cannot pass away, but it is evident by both his teaching and actions that he did not mean this in the way steve_bank does, the Torah as an inscribed book and letter-for-letter rule of daily conduct.

    The Hebrew Scriptures themselves are none too friendly towards those who exercise mercy toward enemies, especially the books of history; Saul, Israel's first monarch, loses his kingship due to a refusal to slaughter innocent children and animals when commanded to, and his successor David is criticized for missing his shot at killing Saul while he was separated from his guards (peeing in a cave?). Mercy is at best a weakness when practiced by humans, and praised but not expected from YHWH. They were terrified of their God, and proud when their enemies were also. This did not change until after the Exile.

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    Veteran Member Sarpedon's Avatar
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    234 "Not to plant diverse seeds together."

    Plenty of food plants grow better with different kinds nearby. This has been known for centuries before being scientifically confirmed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    They are the laws of an ancient empire. Harsh, but the same is true of the other nations of the Ancient Near East. I agree it would be a disaster to try and apply them all in the present, but then, aside from the late Rachel Held Evans, who actually does that?
    It is a stretch to call ancient Israel an empire. Archeological evidence says they were a small player in the region and the biblical images of power and grandeur were embellished.

    And yes, the point we make is that it is an ancient and brutal code. Why do Christians insist that it is all inspired by god and to be freely interpreted to fit modern times? Why the singular focus on homosexuals?

    From the bible forgiveness appears to be between fellow Jews, not fellow humans. Compassion fpr all is a gentile interpretation of the gospel Jesus.

    Jesus seems to reinforce Mosaic Law instead of overturning it.

    Back to which Christians are true and how do we know it. Christians constantly read and quote scripture. If you are a Catholic the pope decides. A latter day Noses with a channel to god on morality.

    If you are a protestant tasking after Luther it is up to you to commune with god without an intermediary. And today thousands of major and minor groups and individuals with personal interpretations. They all know what god wants.

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    The OP is about the flcy of the OT being a constent and absolute moral code.

    I'd have to fact check it. A Jew posted on the forum that post destruction of Israel in the 2nd century diaspora Jews held a conference to canonize the Torah and also get rid of a lot of the old practices.

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    Veteran Member Sarpedon's Avatar
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    Yeah, why would a country who's leadership is in direct contact with the almighty god have a petty and brutal legal code distinguished from other contemporary codes only by its' pettiness?

    I keep pointing out how the religious like to argue that their books and practices are holy and inspired when it suits them, but when any criticism comes up, its all 'well that was just the product of its times.'

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