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Thread: The 613 Old Testament Commandments

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    The OP is about the flcy of the OT being a constent and absolute moral code.

    I'd have to fact check it. A Jew posted on the forum that post destruction of Israel in the 2nd century diaspora Jews held a conference to canonize the Torah and also get rid of a lot of the old practices.
    I think it is incredibly dangerous and foolish to interpret the Hebrew Scriptures in their totality as a moral guidebook. That's not to say that they don't contain beauty and wisdom, but even the most conservative of Jews would not claim that everything it records were goid or moral events. There is such a thing as learning from the mistakes of the past.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
    Yeah, why would a country who's leadership is in direct contact with the almighty god have a petty and brutal legal code distinguished from other contemporary codes only by its' pettiness?

    I keep pointing out how the religious like to argue that their books and practices are holy and inspired when it suits them, but when any criticism comes up, its all 'well that was just the product of its times.'
    I don't think you're paying attention to who you're talking to, those aren't usually the same people.

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    Veteran Member Sarpedon's Avatar
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    Same company, different lawyer.

  4. Top | #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    The OP is about the flcy of the OT being a constent and absolute moral code.

    I'd have to fact check it. A Jew posted on the forum that post destruction of Israel in the 2nd century diaspora Jews held a conference to canonize the Torah and also get rid of a lot of the old practices.
    I think it is incredibly dangerous and foolish to interpret the Hebrew Scriptures in their totality as a moral guidebook. That's not to say that they don't contain beauty and wisdom, but even the most conservative of Jews would not claim that everything it records were goid or moral events. There is such a thing as learning from the mistakes of the past.
    That is what Christians do every day. Interpret. Except Catholics who accept papal interpretation.

    In the last campaign a Republican primary candidate said his budget would be biblically based, whatever that means. There arte many Christians where I live and several vocal meetings a week. You can not help but hear.

    Continual reading, quoting and interpretation of scripture. In the bible 'god says...'. It is not a philosophical discussion.

    One of the Christian polemical battle cries today is a return to traditional biblical values. There are congressional prayer mattings where they pray for god's intercession and all the while can do nothing.

  5. Top | #15
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    The OP is about the flcy of the OT being a constent and absolute moral code.

    I'd have to fact check it. A Jew posted on the forum that post destruction of Israel in the 2nd century diaspora Jews held a conference to canonize the Torah and also get rid of a lot of the old practices.
    I think it is incredibly dangerous and foolish to interpret the Hebrew Scriptures in their totality as a moral guidebook. That's not to say that they don't contain beauty and wisdom, but even the most conservative of Jews would not claim that everything it records were goid or moral events. There is such a thing as learning from the mistakes of the past.
    That is what Christians do every day. Interpret. Except Catholics who accept papal interpretation.

    In the last campaign a Republican primary candidate said his budget would be biblically based, whatever that means. There arte many Christians where I live and several vocal meetings a week. You can not help but hear.

    Continual reading, quoting and interpretation of scripture. In the bible 'god says...'. It is not a philosophical discussion.

    One of the Christian polemical battle cries today is a return to traditional biblical values. There are congressional prayer mattings where they pray for god's intercession and all the while can do nothing.
    I think there are a lot of things you hear but ignore.

  6. Top | #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post

    That is what Christians do every day. Interpret. Except Catholics who accept papal interpretation.

    In the last campaign a Republican primary candidate said his budget would be biblically based, whatever that means. There arte many Christians where I live and several vocal meetings a week. You can not help but hear.

    Continual reading, quoting and interpretation of scripture. In the bible 'god says...'. It is not a philosophical discussion.

    One of the Christian polemical battle cries today is a return to traditional biblical values. There are congressional prayer mattings where they pray for god's intercession and all the while can do nothing.
    I think there are a lot of things you hear but ignore.
    And you refuse to see the obvious. Compared to say Buddhism, Judaism, or Islam Chritianity is a hollow shell, and illusion without substance.

    I still have no idea how you see your self as Christian and pagan. That is a prime example of a self creating self serving definitions of Christianity. Christianity is really Neo Platonism as you put it.

    Understand, you can be a fire or sun worshipper and in general I can respect that. Whatever pleases you. But here we question.

  7. Top | #17
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    The obviously brutal moral standards we see in the bible is not an issue if there is no claim for Divine Inspiration of 'Scripture' - bible morality just being a reflection of how people in that time and place viewed the world and organized their societies, not something coming from a Higher Power, the Creator of the Universe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Inconvenient truths are best ignored, it seems.
    I agree ....

    The Two Greatest Commandments (ignored) should be what matters to "Christians".

  9. Top | #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    The commandments pulled out of the OT. Some are reasonable and understandable, some are genocidal and violent. All concede red historically to be passed to Hebrews from god through Moses. Institutionalized slavery and servitude. Obsession with being deemed unclean by an association requiring purification.

    If you are Christian and believe the OT is the word of god here it is. No work on the Sabbath. No usery. Not6e observant Muslims have sharia compliant banks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments



    64.Not to attempt to contact the dead — Deut. 18:11
    33.To burn a city that has turned to idol worship — Deut. 13:17
    504.Purchase a Hebrew slave in accordance wi
    th the prescribed laws — Ex. 21:2
    534.Not to lend with interest — Lev. 25:37
    438.A man who had a running (unnatural urinary) issue must bring an offering (in the Temple) after he goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 15:13-14
    Tell that to the Jews ..

    Edit: .. for a change!
    Last edited by Learner; 05-22-2019 at 05:42 AM.

  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    The commandments pulled out of the OT. Some are reasonable and understandable, some are genocidal and violent. All concede red historically to be passed to Hebrews from god through Moses. Institutionalized slavery and servitude. Obsession with being deemed unclean by an association requiring purification.

    If you are Christian and believe the OT is the word of god here it is. No work on the Sabbath. No usery. Not6e observant Muslims have sharia compliant banks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments



    64.Not to attempt to contact the dead — Deut. 18:11
    33.To burn a city that has turned to idol worship — Deut. 13:17
    504.Purchase a Hebrew slave in accordance wi
    th the prescribed laws — Ex. 21:2
    534.Not to lend with interest — Lev. 25:37
    438.A man who had a running (unnatural urinary) issue must bring an offering (in the Temple) after he goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 15:13-14
    Tell that to the Jews ..

    Edit: .. for a change!
    There are Jews who avoid work on Sabbath and keep kosher. But they are not biblical literalists for the most part. Isreal was set up as a secular state, not a theocracy.

    There is also a long history of side teachings and commentary by rabbis. There is no central Jewish authority or pope as it were. Any rabbi can write a commentary or position paper. Same with Islam in general.

    The debate here is with Christians. I you want to debate modern Jewish practices start a thread. They range from ultra orthodox and ultra conservative to liberal accepting gays. A spectrum similar to western Christianity. The difference is Jews are not out to convert the world or anyone as far as I can tell. If you want to convert there is a lengthy formal process.

    As explained to me interpretation is up to the individual when confronted with a moral issue.

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