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Thread: The 613 Old Testament Commandments

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    The commandments pulled out of the OT. Some are reasonable and understandable, some are genocidal and violent. All concede red historically to be passed to Hebrews from god through Moses. Institutionalized slavery and servitude. Obsession with being deemed unclean by an association requiring purification.

    If you are Christian and believe the OT is the word of god here it is. No work on the Sabbath. No usery. Not6e observant Muslims have sharia compliant banks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments



    64.Not to attempt to contact the dead — Deut. 18:11
    33.To burn a city that has turned to idol worship — Deut. 13:17
    504.Purchase a Hebrew slave in accordance wi
    th the prescribed laws — Ex. 21:2
    534.Not to lend with interest — Lev. 25:37
    438.A man who had a running (unnatural urinary) issue must bring an offering (in the Temple) after he goes to the Mikveh — Lev. 15:13-14
    Tell that to the Jews ..

    Edit: .. for a change!
    There are Jews who avoid work on Sabbath and keep kosher. But they are not biblical literalists for the most part. Isreal was set up as a secular state, not a theocracy.

    There is also a long history of side teachings and commentary by rabbis. There is no central Jewish authority or pope as it were. Any rabbi can write a commentary or position paper. Same with Islam in general.

    The debate here is with Christians. I you want to debate modern Jewish practices start a thread. They range from ultra orthodox and ultra conservative to liberal accepting gays. A spectrum similar to western Christianity. The difference is Jews are not out to convert the world or anyone as far as I can tell. If you want to convert there is a lengthy formal process.

    As explained to me interpretation is up to the individual when confronted with a moral issue.
    All of the above is also true of most Christian communities.

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    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    They are the laws of an ancient empire. Harsh, but the same is true of the other nations of the Ancient Near East. I agree it would be a disaster to try and apply them all in the present, but then, aside from the late Rachel Held Evans, who actually does that?
    Are you saying that the information in the bible is indistinguishable from other things written by fallible uneducated humans of the times? That’s there’s nothing special or important about it and it is rather cruel and inhumane as some of those low-information humans were back then? That this is basically the FOX News of the bronze age?

    I think everyone here agrees with that.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    They are the laws of an ancient empire. Harsh, but the same is true of the other nations of the Ancient Near East. I agree it would be a disaster to try and apply them all in the present, but then, aside from the late Rachel Held Evans, who actually does that?
    Are you saying that the information in the bible is indistinguishable from other things written by fallible uneducated humans of the times? That’s there’s nothing special or important about it and it is rather cruel and inhumane as some of those low-information humans were back then? That this is basically the FOX News of the bronze age?

    I think everyone here agrees with that.
    I think you have a very unreasonable perspective on both history and literature. Every culture is capable of both wondrous and horrible things, and art and poetry will tend to encapsulate both of those extremes. Why keep it around, otherwise? Art that does not cast a mirror on reality is meaningless.

    Your claim that ancient literature of any sort was produced by anyone other than the educated class strikes me as bizarre. If someone is not educated, how would they write a book? Writing was specialized knowledge on the ancient world. And much of the Hebrew Scriptures' cruelty stems from its status as the justification of an empire; generally, kings and judges reserve the finest fruits of the educational system for themselves and their kin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    There are Jews who avoid work on Sabbath and keep kosher. But they are not biblical literalists for the most part. Isreal was set up as a secular state, not a theocracy.

    There is also a long history of side teachings and commentary by rabbis. There is no central Jewish authority or pope as it were. Any rabbi can write a commentary or position paper. Same with Islam in general.

    The debate here is with Christians. I you want to debate modern Jewish practices start a thread. They range from ultra orthodox and ultra conservative to liberal accepting gays. A spectrum similar to western Christianity. The difference is Jews are not out to convert the world or anyone as far as I can tell. If you want to convert there is a lengthy formal process.

    As explained to me interpretation is up to the individual when confronted with a moral issue.
    Yes indeed to the underlined above! Something we agree on.

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    So where exactly does "the bible was inspired by God"" come into it?

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    Already in the bible itself not from outside traditions... where else?

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Already in the bible itself not from outside traditions... where else?
    I meant as endorsed by believers and somehow reconciled with evidence to the contrary.

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    As long as believers go as according to the texts / teaching, asking to be forgiven an accepting Jesus then it is as it written; The Holy Spirit goes into them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    As long as believers go as according to the texts / teaching, asking to be forgiven an accepting Jesus then it is as it written; The Holy Spirit goes into them.
    By 'evidence to the contrary' I meant the brutality of the God of the bible as described in the bible.

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    I was about to go to bed,


    But thats just it ...simply saying its "brutality of the God" is imo misleading from your viewpoint, without the details. What do you say if I say God punishes evil? Your words against mine is all it is IOWs.

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