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Thread: Christians Who Deny the Veracity of the Old Testament

  1. Top | #61
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    For my two bob contribution today I'll say the word "faith" is often conflated with justified belief or trust, which unlike faith, are based on evidence.
    I'm sure you couldn't have any ulterior motive for defining faith in such a fashion.

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    For my two bob contribution today I'll say the word "faith" is often conflated with justified belief or trust, which unlike faith, are based on evidence.
    I'm sure you couldn't have any ulterior motive for defining faith in such a fashion.
    I have no motive apart from pointing out that such equivocation is common.

  3. Top | #63
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    For my two bob contribution today I'll say the word "faith" is often conflated with justified belief or trust, which unlike faith, are based on evidence.
    I'm sure you couldn't have any ulterior motive for defining faith in such a fashion.
    I have no motive apart from pointing out that such equivocation is common.
    Disagreement over a definition is not equivocation.

  4. Top | #64
    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post

    I have no motive apart from pointing out that such equivocation is common.
    Disagreement over a definition is not equivocation.
    Disagreeing over a definition? Are you creating your own language? I generally look to a dictionary for the accepted definition.

    1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
    "this restores one's faith in politicians"

    2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
    That looks damned close to "DBT's definition". Although I have generally heard faith as meaning strong belief even if in spite of contrary evidence.

  5. Top | #65
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post

    I have no motive apart from pointing out that such equivocation is common.
    Disagreement over a definition is not equivocation.
    There is something that defines the word 'faith.' There is something that distinguishes faith from trust or hope. Hope itself may be broken down into reasonable hope: that something is indeed likely to happen based on evidence and probability...and hope that is based on nothing more than a desire for something to happen, which turns hope into faith. 'John has faith that his wife will pull through against all odds'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    There are Gods laws and covenants and then there are local governing laws.
    That's a mighty convenient retroactive superimposition of the separation of Church and State that only arose theoretically in America and then only in the comparatively recent history.

  7. Top | #67
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post

    Disagreeing over a definition? Are you creating your own language? I generally look to a dictionary for the accepted definition.

    1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
    "this restores one's faith in politicians"

    2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
    That looks damned close to "DBT's definition". Although I have generally heard faith as meaning strong belief even if in spite of contrary evidence.
    I didn't mean to suggest that DBT had invented the term, but it obviously was not the definition either I or Sarpedon were using in our conversation. If DBT and I were arguing down in the Arts & Media about whether the bridge segment in "Take Five" adds anything to the piece musically or whether it is just a cheap set of fifths to ramp up energy, would it make sense for you to butt in and go "I am sick and tired of people equivocating about bridges. Bridges are physical structures that cross a river, not a metaphorical references to a break in the melody! Jazz musicians are so dishonest!!!!"

    You have the relevant definition, the one we were actually discussing, in your post there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    There are Gods laws and covenants and then there are local governing laws.
    That's a mighty convenient retroactive superimposition of the separation of Church and State that only arose theoretically in America and then only in the comparatively recent history.
    Not convenient enough it seems, for you to get the logical-sense aspect to these types of laws . For example my "local governing laws" are different from yours, despite if you were also a believer of the same faith? Local-laws always change, varying between locations,local traditions & customs in various time periods.

    Simply meaning, Gods laws never change ... only local laws do. Your US constitution etc. is not applicable to me in the UK etc..etc.. so why would the old Jewish local laws apply? (only God laws apply everywhere to believers)

  9. Top | #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    so why would the old Jewish local laws apply? (only God laws apply everywhere to believers)
    Because they weren't "local" laws; they were and are all God's laws. That's what "the Law" refers to. God's laws. That's why it's so ridiculous, but of course it's understandable that your cognitive dissonance would not allow you to see them in that light, hence your retroactive superimposition of modern constructs that did not exist in those days.

    I tell you what, can you quote chapter and verse of the OT that says, "These are just local laws, not God's law" or even words to that effect? I've never seen this dodge before. Thanks.

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    Well I'm going to dodge you for a bit and pay some bills.

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