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Thread: Christians Who Deny the Veracity of the Old Testament

  1. Top | #31
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post

    Only according to you (plural) and your own biblical pov.
    IOW, you are dishonest like all Christians, and you lie about the clear cut commands in the OT and pretend that they don't mean what they explicitly and unambiguously say. IOW, you ignore the Bible, invent you own ethics, then pretend that whatever the Bible says matches what you made up.
    If its something you like/ need something, to have a grip with, to make false notions, perhaps because the OT is not ignored as you like to think by all Chrsitians, then its understandble.
    Not ignored? Not a single house in my neighborhood has a knee-high oarapet around the roof. Does yours?

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    Hashtag parapet.

  3. Top | #33
    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post

    Only according to you (plural) and your own biblical pov.
    IOW, you are dishonest like all Christians, and you lie about the clear cut commands in the OT and pretend that they don't mean what they explicitly and unambiguously say. IOW, you ignore the Bible, invent you own ethics, then pretend that whatever the Bible says matches what you made up.
    If its something you like/ need something, to have a grip with, to make false notions, perhaps because the OT is not ignored as you like to think by all Chrsitians, then its understandble.
    I take it that you haven't actually ever read the laws in the Bible. Either that or you live in one hell of a brutal neighborhood. For instance, personally, I have never seen my community kill disrespectful children even though I have seen many disrespectful children and the Biblical laws command that the community kill them.

  4. Top | #34
    Veteran Member Sarpedon's Avatar
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    If it says "Jesus did not come to destroy the laws of the prophets, etc," then thats what it means, validating the OT. Jesus's two greatest commandments for example, hangs "all the laws of the prophets", when someone abides and follow these two laws, then he or she will be actually in-line with the previous laws made by the other prophets, (perhaps, oddly enough, without them (believers) realizing it including the atheists - not getting it).
    I'm confused: how can you be 'in line' with a law, if you don't follow it, but a different law instead?

  5. Top | #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post

    If its something you like/ need something, to have a grip with, to make false notions, perhaps because the OT is not ignored as you like to think by all Chrsitians, then its understandble.
    I take it that you haven't actually ever read the laws in the Bible. Either that or you live in one hell of a brutal neighborhood. For instance, personally, I have never seen my community kill disrespectful children even though I have seen many disrespectful children and the Biblical laws command that the community kill them.
    Oh but it happens when there are NO laws sometimes during wars or through dictatorships, even in the last few centuries. Also you didn't read the context in "deutronomy"... the time when they were sacrificing children to false gods and all the other odd things that go with adopting that particular culture.

  6. Top | #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
    If it says "Jesus did not come to destroy the laws of the prophets, etc," then thats what it means, validating the OT. Jesus's two greatest commandments for example, hangs "all the laws of the prophets", when someone abides and follow these two laws, then he or she will be actually in-line with the previous laws made by the other prophets, (perhaps, oddly enough, without them (believers) realizing it including the atheists - not getting it).
    I'm confused: how can you be 'in line' with a law, if you don't follow it, but a different law instead?
    The thing is... we (humankind) have failed previous laws "already" e.g. as according to the theology, several covenants "broken" henceforth, God must "keep" HIS word ... His part of the covenant .. no retractions or breaking HIS word or agreement. Failure to keep the commandments is death! However, there is "salvation" (because we can't keep to the covenants) i.e. through Jesus Christ. That is all it is really, to understand.
    Last edited by Learner; 06-18-2019 at 02:41 AM. Reason: spelling

  7. Top | #37
    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post

    If its something you like/ need something, to have a grip with, to make false notions, perhaps because the OT is not ignored as you like to think by all Chrsitians, then its understandble.
    I take it that you haven't actually ever read the laws in the Bible. Either that or you live in one hell of a brutal neighborhood. For instance, personally, I have never seen my community kill disrespectful children even though I have seen many disrespectful children and the Biblical laws command that the community kill them.
    Oh but it happens when there are NO laws sometimes during wars or through dictatorships, even in the last few centuries. Also you didn't read the context in "deutronomy"... the time when they were sacrificing children to false gods and all the other odd things that go with adopting that particular culture.
    That is rather confusing. Are you saying that GOOD Christians do kill disrespectful children when there is no secular law against it? Oh, and that law comes from Moses not from a desire to sacrifice to 'false gods'.

  8. Top | #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post

    Oh but it happens when there are NO laws sometimes during wars or through dictatorships, even in the last few centuries. Also you didn't read the context in "deutronomy"... the time when they were sacrificing children to false gods and all the other odd things that go with adopting that particular culture.
    That is rather confusing. Are you saying that GOOD Christians do kill disrespectful children when there is no secular law against it? Oh, and that law comes from Moses not from a desire to sacrifice to 'false gods'.
    Did you wonder whether Christians should follow as according to Jesus or as according to your question above? What did you read in the NT? What were the two Greatest commandments?

  9. Top | #39
    Veteran Member skepticalbip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post

    Oh but it happens when there are NO laws sometimes during wars or through dictatorships, even in the last few centuries. Also you didn't read the context in "deutronomy"... the time when they were sacrificing children to false gods and all the other odd things that go with adopting that particular culture.
    That is rather confusing. Are you saying that GOOD Christians do kill disrespectful children when there is no secular law against it? Oh, and that law comes from Moses not from a desire to sacrifice to 'false gods'.
    Did you wonder whether Christians should follow as according to Jesus or as according to your question above? What did you read in the NT? What were the two Greatest commandments?
    For someone who claims to be Christian, you show no indication that you have ever actually read your Bible. Do you just make up what you think it should say then assume and declare that it does?

    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    ~ A statement by Jesus according to Matthew 5:17-20 English Standard Version (ESV)
    Perhaps you would like to link to where in the Bible Jesus said not to follow the laws of Moses. The above quote certainly shows that he said we should.

  10. Top | #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post

    For someone who claims to be Christian, you show no indication that you have ever actually read your Bible. Do you just make up what you think it should say then assume and declare that it does?
    17 “*Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    ~ A statement by Jesus according to Matthew 5:17-20 English Standard Version (ESV)
    Perhaps you would like to link to where in the Bible Jesus said not to follow the laws of Moses. The above quote certainly shows that he said we should.
    The link is there *, if you read it - and who says to do away with them? If one can follow them, then thats just fine (who can actually follow them?) Fortunately God knew this would be difficult imo so to speak,.. so by following Jesus's "two greatest commandments", you would more or less follow the previous laws anyway, perhaps even without realising.

    Matthew 22:36-40 New International Version (NIV)

    37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 *All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
    Last edited by Learner; 06-18-2019 at 06:58 AM.

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