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Thread: Southern Baptists confront sexual abuse in churches

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    Southern Baptists confront sexual abuse in churches

    Southern Baptists To Confront Sexual Abuse And Role Of Women In The Church

    Well, good, I guess. It's about time "the right thing to do" took priority over tribalistic superiority complex and aversion to self correction.

    But I won't hold my breath that there will be a new Southern Baptist denomination where women and children are safe and treated fairly by elders and pastors. When the most basic tenet of your ideology is "Do not question the authority figure or you'll burn in hell for eternity," I would not count on this new commitment to holding church authorities accountable to last very long.

    "You're going to see a convention that is united in its agreement on the fact that this cannot be tolerated in our churches and that we have to do whatever it takes, regardless of what it costs us, to make our churches safe places," Greear told NPR.
    Because clearly the conveniently invisible authority-of-authorities will not keep them safe.

    It's always other human beings who keep people safe as well as hold people accountable. Always. This must be a real existential crisis for them.
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    Will they take on the Mormon polygamists? Teens are married to middle aged and older men.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Will they take on the Mormon polygamists? Teens are married to middle aged and older men.
    Why would the Southern Baptist convention take on Mormons?

    Or is this an "all the other stupid religions do it, so don't criticize us" argument?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Will they take on the Mormon polygamists? Teens are married to middle aged and older men.
    Why would the Southern Baptist convention take on Mormons?

    Or is this an "all the other stupid religions do it, so don't criticize us" argument?
    Don't have a freaking clue what you are rambling on about. It was not an argument, a question about Christian selective morality and actually doing the right thing across the board. Catholics, Jews, all of it.

    It is not generally publicized. In the orthodox Jewish community in NYC there is a history of general wife abuse and non sexual child abuse. There are social programs to help children transition out of the culturem9nto mainstream society. It is ultra cloistered. Kids grow up never having been to a restaurant or store outside the community. Women have trouble escaping the environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Will they take on the Mormon polygamists? Teens are married to middle aged and older men.
    Why would the Southern Baptist convention take on Mormons?

    Or is this an "all the other stupid religions do it, so don't criticize us" argument?
    Don't have a freaking clue what you are rambling on about. It was not an argument, a question about Christian selective morality and actually doing the right thing across the board. Catholics, Jews, all of it.

    It is not generally publicized. In the orthodox Jewish community in NYC there is a history of general wife abuse and non sexual child abuse. There are social programs to help children transition out of the culturem9nto mainstream society. It is ultra cloistered. Kids grow up never having been to a restaurant or store outside the community. Women have trouble escaping the environment.
    In spite of your rambling here, I still ask, why would the SBC take on the issues of other religions?

    Are you suggesting that groups like SBC would care about overall problems of controlling, patriarchal, authoritarian, ignorance-worshiping groups in the world? They'd have to become atheists or, at the very least, fundamentally reformed in their religious beliefs to recognize just what it is that they share with other groups and why abusers and predators find it so easy to take refuge among them.
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    While it's a nice gesture on their part and clearly a step in the right direction, I won't be holding my breath waiting to see if they actually mean to do something about it or if this is just a PR statement which will allow them to look as if they're doing something about it without their actually then going and doing that something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    While it's a nice gesture on their part and clearly a step in the right direction, I won't be holding my breath waiting to see if they actually mean to do something about it or if this is just a PR statement which will allow them to look as if they're doing something about it without their actually then going and doing that something.
    I won't be holding mine, either. But I do believe there are a great many decent and concerned people in the SBC. If only they'd have the wherewithal to go the extra step in terms of reason and critical thinking and seek to understand the elements of their ideology that make their groups such cozy havens for predators.

    Again, I truly believe they are largely caring, decent people, but they fail to extend that human empathy far enough to challenge their own beliefs. As long as they accept an authority figure (pastor, scripture, magical imaginary friend) to stand in place of their own conscience, they will serve as a liability to humanity and not in any way a force for good in a tribe of seven billion no matter how conscientious and good hearted they are within the group.
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    GOP and Trump supporters will not be able to say they didn't know. Vote in numbers too big to manipulate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    While it's a nice gesture on their part and clearly a step in the right direction, I won't be holding my breath waiting to see if they actually mean to do something about it or if this is just a PR statement which will allow them to look as if they're doing something about it without their actually then going and doing that something.
    I won't be holding mine, either. But I do believe there are a great many decent and concerned people in the SBC. If only they'd have the wherewithal to go the extra step in terms of reason and critical thinking and seek to understand the elements of their ideology that make their groups such cozy havens for predators.

    Again, I truly believe they are largely caring, decent people, but they fail to extend that human empathy far enough to challenge their own beliefs. As long as they accept an authority figure (pastor, scripture, magical imaginary friend) to stand in place of their own conscience, they will serve as a liability to humanity and not in any way a force for good in a tribe of seven billion no matter how conscientious and good hearted they are within the group.
    Well, that's the same with every organization. For instance, most Catholics are caring, decent people but that didn't stop the Catholic Church from covering up and enabling the rape of children for centuries because it only takes a small handful of individuals to abuse their power and authority within the organization in order to do so. It's the policies and procedures that are in place and the demand by those in charge that these things be adhered to which is the thing that makes the difference, not the attitude about the abuse from the general congregation member.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    While it's a nice gesture on their part and clearly a step in the right direction, I won't be holding my breath waiting to see if they actually mean to do something about it or if this is just a PR statement which will allow them to look as if they're doing something about it without their actually then going and doing that something.
    I won't be holding mine, either. But I do believe there are a great many decent and concerned people in the SBC. If only they'd have the wherewithal to go the extra step in terms of reason and critical thinking and seek to understand the elements of their ideology that make their groups such cozy havens for predators.

    Again, I truly believe they are largely caring, decent people, but they fail to extend that human empathy far enough to challenge their own beliefs. As long as they accept an authority figure (pastor, scripture, magical imaginary friend) to stand in place of their own conscience, they will serve as a liability to humanity and not in any way a force for good in a tribe of seven billion no matter how conscientious and good hearted they are within the group.
    Well, that's the same with every organization. For instance, most Catholics are caring, decent people but that didn't stop the Catholic Church from covering up and enabling the rape of children for centuries because it only takes a small handful of individuals to abuse their power and authority within the organization in order to do so. It's the policies and procedures that are in place and the demand by those in charge that these things be adhered to which is the thing that makes the difference, not the attitude about the abuse from the general congregation member.
    No, certainly not every organization, not even every religious organization. Quakers, for example, don't create that kind of environment for predators. They don't insist on blind trust in the church authority, they don't punish questioning, and they do respect autonomy and insist on extreme pacifism. These values are antithesis to most of Christianity and Islam, and other religions, and they serve to encourage a much more humane and responsible world view, and discourage ideological dogmatism.

    And secular organizations are rarely based in authority worship, thought policing, antagonism to outsiders, us vs. them identity, etc. If they are, they are called religions or cults, not just "organizations." Sports is the closest secular type of organization to a religion that might create a welcoming, protective environment for predators.

    As for attitudes among the congregation, I've seen too many instances where people I thought were sane and humane in their regard for others turn into savages when dealing with victims of corrupt religious authorities, particularly girl victims.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post

    Don't have a freaking clue what you are rambling on about. It was not an argument, a question about Christian selective morality and actually doing the right thing across the board. Catholics, Jews, all of it.

    It is not generally publicized. In the orthodox Jewish community in NYC there is a history of general wife abuse and non sexual child abuse. There are social programs to help children transition out of the culturem9nto mainstream society. It is ultra cloistered. Kids grow up never having been to a restaurant or store outside the community. Women have trouble escaping the environment.
    In spite of your rambling here, I still ask, why would the SBC take on the issues of other religions?

    Are you suggesting that groups like SBC would care about overall problems of controlling, patriarchal, authoritarian, ignorance-worshiping groups in the world? They'd have to become atheists or, at the very least, fundamentally reformed in their religious beliefs to recognize just what it is that they share with other groups and why abusers and predators find it so easy to take refuge among them.
    Again, referring to Christians selective morality. Is there a sarcasm symbol? If there is I will use it in the future to make sure the meaning is clear.

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