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Thread: Immigrant Concentration Camps

  1. Top | #521
    Elder Contributor angelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    So the whole ICE is to be blamed and castigated for the mistake of one or two individuals? Let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone!
    1) Employers are responsible for improper acts of their employees.

    2) This is far from the only wrongdoing on their part. When you see enough bits of rot figure the whole thing is rotten.
    What do you think would happen if the position was reversed and it was hundreds of thousands of US citizens trying to enter illegally into Mexico and particularly into central America?

  2. Top | #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    So the whole ICE is to be blamed and castigated for the mistake of one or two individuals? Let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone!
    1) Employers are responsible for improper acts of their employees.

    2) This is far from the only wrongdoing on their part. When you see enough bits of rot figure the whole thing is rotten.
    What do you think would happen if the position was reversed and it was hundreds of thousands of US citizens trying to enter illegally into Mexico and particularly into central America?
    The space unicorns from the planet Galaxia would stop them. Prove me wrong. Imaginary hypotheticals are fun!

    In all seriousness, what would most likely happen is a despotic ruler would somehow find themselves inundated with funds and military aid, overthrow the government and prop up a pro-US regime in Mexico and particularly Central America. Just a hunch.

  3. Top | #523
    Elder Contributor angelo's Avatar
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    The borderless world you dream of is just that! A horrible dream that's in reality a nightmare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    So the whole ICE is to be blamed and castigated for the mistake of one or two individuals? Let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone!
    1) Employers are responsible for improper acts of their employees.

    2) This is far from the only wrongdoing on their part. When you see enough bits of rot figure the whole thing is rotten.
    What do you think would happen if the position was reversed and it was hundreds of thousands of US citizens trying to enter illegally into Mexico and particularly into central America?
    I'm a big fan of hypotheticals where they are useful or on topic for exploring the applications of an expressed or implied principle. For instance where we explored whether you were capable of actually taking a stand as making any commitments at all against behavior that you would Reject your God-king Emperor for.

    But this doesn't fit that mould. Why would hundreds of thousands leave except to escape a fascist nation at this point... In which case they wouldn't be illegally entering, they would be refugees and asylum seekers. What I would EXPECT to happen is they be welcomed by the largely Catholic nations of South and Central America as the Bible instructs: with love and open arms, to be treated same as citizens, so long as they pass their background checks.

  5. Top | #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    So the whole ICE is to be blamed and castigated for the mistake of one or two individuals? Let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone!
    1) Employers are responsible for improper acts of their employees.

    2) This is far from the only wrongdoing on their part. When you see enough bits of rot figure the whole thing is rotten.
    What do you think would happen if the position was reversed and it was hundreds of thousands of US citizens trying to enter illegally into Mexico and particularly into central America?
    What Mexico might do if the situations were reversed is immaterial to how the USA ought to react.

  6. Top | #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    So the whole ICE is to be blamed and castigated for the mistake of one or two individuals? Let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone!
    1) Employers are responsible for improper acts of their employees.

    2) This is far from the only wrongdoing on their part. When you see enough bits of rot figure the whole thing is rotten.
    What do you think would happen if the position was reversed and it was hundreds of thousands of US citizens trying to enter illegally into Mexico and particularly into central America?
    The issue is the abusive conditions.

  7. Top | #527
    The Doctor's Wife RavenSky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    If compensation has to be paid to every person ever wrongly arrested, no mater how trivial the matter, it would cost taxpayers billions which could be used for far more useful purposes, like housing genuine homeless and destitute American legal citizens.
    Does that apply if being wrongly arrested is for someone on your side?
    "Or we could just stop arresting people and imprisoning them unlawfully without due process" seems a good alternative, too. It's not a trivial manner to get abducted and put in a concentration camp for "walking north while brown".
    And he was held for weeks without even a phone call (which even mass murderers are allowed to have), and held for nearly a month total in spite of border patrol having all of his documents from day one.

    Also important to note - this happened 90 miles from the border. He wasn't in Mexico. He was in Texas (where he lives) and simply traveling north for a school function.

  8. Top | #528
    The Doctor's Wife RavenSky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post

    If compensation has to be paid to every person ever wrongly arrested, no mater how trivial the matter, it would cost taxpayers billions which could be used for far more useful purposes, like housing genuine homeless and destitute American legal citizens.
    Alternately, law enforcement would be a lot more careful about arrest first and ask questions later.

    However, in this situation I don't think he is owed any compensation because of the false documents. Even though he wasn't illegal neither was he arrested for no fault of his own.
    He did not have any false documents.

  9. Top | #529
    The Doctor's Wife RavenSky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post

    Horsecrap. ICE are constitutionally prohibited from demanding his documents in the first place. Therefore there cannot be any wrongdoing on his part by presenting them with anything, or nothing - no matter how misleading it might be to them.

    Documents that you are not allowed to examine cannot be 'false' in any reasonable sense.
    What false documents? I haven't heard anything about his documents being false.
    I don't know all the details but he did have some false stuff--his mother trying to hide her illegal status.
    wrong

  10. Top | #530
    The Doctor's Wife RavenSky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post

    "Or we could just stop arresting people and imprisoning them unlawfully without due process" seems a good alternative, too. It's not a trivial manner to get abducted and put in a concentration camp for "walking north while brown".
    You just don't get it do you? WTF does colour or race has to do with anything? These people are trying to enter another sovereign country illegally! What would you suggest the authorities should do, chaffour them in limos to wherever they want to go and perhaps handed a satchel full of money?
    A U.S. citizen can not be "entering another sovereign country illegally" while driving through Texas

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