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Thread: City Council Nixes National Prayer

  1. Top | #11
    The Doctor's Wife RavenSky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Yes, the POA is no longer part of this Minnesota City Council's Meetings. I guess everyone will have to pray at home now.

    Minnesota city council has voted unanimously to stop reciting the Pledge of Allegiance

    Good idea.
    excellent, though the Pledge isn't a prayer. Hopefully they weren't doing prayers in the first place.

  2. Top | #12
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    Zed? Zed's dead, honey. Zed's dead.

  3. Top | #13
    Formerly Joedad
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavenSky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Yes, the POA is no longer part of this Minnesota City Council's Meetings. I guess everyone will have to pray at home now.

    Minnesota city council has voted unanimously to stop reciting the Pledge of Allegiance

    Good idea.
    excellent, though the Pledge isn't a prayer. Hopefully they weren't doing prayers in the first place.
    It was not a prayer until it was given the words under god. Then it became a prayer.

  4. Top | #14
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ideologyhunter View Post
    Me too! I also remember wondering why the letter after K had such a long name: Elemento.
    I was an adult before I heard the US alphabet song - the UK one is completely different, and has a 3-3-5 scheme, repeated twice.

    It came as some surprise to me that you run LMNOP together, until I realised that the poor scansion was necessary to accommodate your weird pronunciation of the letter Zed, which we rhyme with 'M', thereby splitting the alphabet neatly in half, while you desperately race through the middle looking for a plausible rhyme with 'Zee'.
    i hadn't heard the British alphabet song so, out of curiosity, I did a Youtube search to hear what it sounded like. The Brits must have been infected by Yankinza and changed it since you were in school there. The version I found ran LMNOP together like their cousins across the pond... although it is, as a whole, different.




    On the 29th of March, 1982, Yorkshire and Tyne-Tees finaly succumbed, and from that date Sesame Street was broadcast in every region of the UK. I was eleven years old at the time, so I wasn't affected. But at that point the British alphabet song was doomed.

    We like to imagine that the Internet contains the sum of all human knowledge, but in fact there's a big hole - history from the TV age, but which pre-dates the wide adoption of the Internet and digital recording in the 1990s isn't well preserved at all.

    The only record I have yet found online of the Alphabet Song I remember from the early '70s in Yorkshire is a couple of forum posts asking whether anyone else recalls that song.

    It's a bit sad to think that a part of my childhood is now almost completely lost to the failures of historical record keeping, and to the cultural steamroller that Elmo and Big Bird have driven over our heritage.

    On the other hand, when I look around at the huge damage caused by a nostalgic yearning to recover the lost world of our youth (Brexit, Trump, the Liberal-National Party, etc.), I find that I am more inclined to let it go and move on.

    At least my song hasn't plagiarised its tune from 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star'.

  5. Top | #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Nut View Post
    Zed? Zed's dead, honey. Zed's dead.
    Are all of them dead?

    And are these the fast or slow kind? The smart or dumb kind?

  6. Top | #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Nut View Post
    Zed? Zed's dead, honey. Zed's dead.
    Are all of them dead?

    And are these the fast or slow kind? The smart or dumb kind?
    [hint]the pop culture reference kind[/hint]

  7. Top | #17
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    It was not a prayer until it was given the words under god. Then it became a prayer.
    I don't think adding 'under god' made it a prayer. It's not addressed to a deity, nor does it require any deity perform some act of patronage over the nation.

    I think it does resemble a prayer in that it's taught by rote, memorized and repeated without being understood. Authority figures tell you to repeat the sounds and get upset if you question the contents or the very ritual itself. Participation is mandatory, but engaging the brain is actually contraindicated.

    But then, that also resembles a nursery rhyme. I was singing 'rock a by baby' for years before I was brought up short by FINALLY noticing the lyrics. 'Wait, the branch breaks and BABY TUMBLES DOWN!?!? What's the deal? Who put baby to bed at THE TOP OF A TREE, GOD DAMN IT!?!?!'
    Or "If I should die before I wake? Who writes this shit!?!?"

  8. Top | #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    It was not a prayer until it was given the words under god. Then it became a prayer.
    I don't think adding 'under god' made it a prayer. It's not addressed to a deity, nor does it require any deity perform some act of patronage over the nation.

    I think it does resemble a prayer in that it's taught by rote, memorized and repeated without being understood. Authority figures tell you to repeat the sounds and get upset if you question the contents or the very ritual itself. Participation is mandatory, but engaging the brain is actually contraindicated.

    But then, that also resembles a nursery rhyme. I was singing 'rock a by baby' for years before I was brought up short by FINALLY noticing the lyrics. 'Wait, the branch breaks and BABY TUMBLES DOWN!?!? What's the deal? Who put baby to bed at THE TOP OF A TREE, GOD DAMN IT!?!?!'
    Or "If I should die before I wake? Who writes this shit!?!?"
    people who's life expectancy was in the 40 year range... when the value of a life was a fraction of what it is today.

  9. Top | #19
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Yeah, yeah.
    You're four. Time to kneel down by the bed and consider your mortality.

  10. Top | #20
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    It was not a prayer until it was given the words under god. Then it became a prayer.
    I don't think adding 'under god' made it a prayer. It's not addressed to a deity, nor does it require any deity perform some act of patronage over the nation.

    I think it does resemble a prayer in that it's taught by rote, memorized and repeated without being understood. Authority figures tell you to repeat the sounds and get upset if you question the contents or the very ritual itself. Participation is mandatory, but engaging the brain is actually contraindicated.

    But then, that also resembles a nursery rhyme. I was singing 'rock a by baby' for years before I was brought up short by FINALLY noticing the lyrics. 'Wait, the branch breaks and BABY TUMBLES DOWN!?!? What's the deal? Who put baby to bed at THE TOP OF A TREE, GOD DAMN IT!?!?!'
    Or "If I should die before I wake? Who writes this shit!?!?"
    A lot of English nursery rhymes are political satire, from a time when sedition could easily be fatal unless it was obscured.

    There's some evidence that 'Rock a bye baby' is an anti-catholic work, aimed at James the Seventh and Second, and describing the 'Glorious Revolution' of 1688, in which the childlike slumber of the leader of the House of Stuart, unaware of public feeling against his reign, lead to the collapse of both the king and his lineage.

    Of course, any suggestion of rebellion against a king is treason, even if that rebellion directly led to the current king's reign.

    The earliest surviving record of the song, dated around 1765, includes the footnote "This may serve as a warning to the Proud and Ambitious, who climb so high that they generally fall at last". The tune of the song is a variant of 'Lilliburlero', an anti-catholic and anti-Irish refrain popular with the supporters of William of Orange during the Glorious Revolution (which wasn't really a revolution, so much as a coup d'├ętat in support of a foreign invasion. Unsure of the loyalty of English troops, King James brought Irish troops to England to defend his crown, which was a deeply unpopular, and ultimately futile, move). Lilliburlero is still popular with the Orangemen in Northern Ireland - sectarian violence has a long memory.

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