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Thread: Are Gay Men Less Aggressive and Warlike?

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    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Are Gay Men Less Aggressive and Warlike?

    Another discussion sparked a curiosity and I don’t know the answer. Asking here.

    It is said that in general women are more cooperative and men are more antagonistic/warlike. How do gay men fit in to that pattern? Do they have a pattern? Scholarly answers appreciated. Feel free to also discuss whether my first assertion is even true, but what this thread is really about is discussion of aggressive behavior and whether gay men are any different from straight men, or transgender or non-binary.

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    Without spending a long amount of time searching for articles, I've heard a few things about this:

    - Aggression is basically hormonal (Testosterone)
    - Homosexuality arises due to fringe hormonal levels (either too low, or too high testosterone - this is probably a simplification)

    If you look closely you'll notice two brands of gay men - those who are extremely effeminate, and those who aren't really that effeminate. The former are certainly less aggressive due to lower levels of testosterone, while the latter maybe not as much.

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    I'd also hazard a guess that lesbians are typically more masculine than the general female population, and probably also more aggressive.

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    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Is it true that homosexuality corollates with current hormone levels? I did not think so because giving people hormones does not change their sexuality. Post-menopausal women do not tend to become either gay or more aggressive. I don’t think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Is it true that homosexuality corollates with current hormone levels? I did not think so because giving people hormones does not change their sexuality. Post-menopausal women do not tend to become either gay or more aggressive. I don’t think?
    I've seen a study that suggested this, but as I mentioned my post is likely a simplification. The reality is very likely much more complex.

    But in general yes - gay men have a different mix of hormones relative to the male population, as do lesbian women.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Is it true that homosexuality corollates with current hormone levels? I did not think so because giving people hormones does not change their sexuality. Post-menopausal women do not tend to become either gay or more aggressive. I don’t think?
    I've seen a study that suggested this, but as I mentioned my post is likely a simplification. The reality is very likely much more complex.

    But in general yes - gay men have a different mix of hormones relative to the male population, as do lesbian women.
    That surprises me because there is just no sign that post-menopausal women, who have a significant hormone change, tend to change their sexuality or their agression. With such a massive control group, I would expect the signal to be blindingly clear if it were true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Is it true that homosexuality corollates with current hormone levels? I did not think so because giving people hormones does not change their sexuality. Post-menopausal women do not tend to become either gay or more aggressive. I don’t think?
    I've seen a study that suggested this, but as I mentioned my post is likely a simplification. The reality is very likely much more complex.

    But in general yes - gay men have a different mix of hormones relative to the male population, as do lesbian women.
    That surprises me because there is just no sign that post-menopausal women, who have a significant hormone change, tend to change their sexuality or their agression. With such a massive control group, I would expect the signal to be blindingly clear if it were true.
    I'm attempting to give you a simple answer based on what I know. If you want complete accuracy you'll need to spend some time parsing through journals. Human physiology and psychology is very complex, and it's quite likely that even scientists are not 100% clear on this issue.

    Needless to say we know that sexuality is genetic and that gay men/women express different psychological characteristics. We also know that hormonal changes affect our psychological experience. So it's likely that there are heritable genetic products in the body that account for these differences.

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    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
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    I have a friend who lives in the Bay Area of California. She used to work at a shelter for battered women. Later she worked in a shelter for people in gay and lesbian relationships. She said the injuries sustained by women at the hands of male partners did not prepare her for the brutality she saw between gay men. When gay relationships turn violent, it quickly escalates to serious injury.

    I'm sure violent gay partners are a very small percent of all gay men and probably the same percent as violent men in heterosexual relationships. However, there is no reason to think any man who may seem to have feminine mannerisms won't turn violent when threatened and provoked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post

    That surprises me because there is just no sign that post-menopausal women, who have a significant hormone change, tend to change their sexuality or their agression. With such a massive control group, I would expect the signal to be blindingly clear if it were true.
    I'm attempting to give you a simple answer based on what I know. If you want complete accuracy you'll need to spend some time parsing through journals. Human physiology and psychology is very complex, and it's quite likely that even scientists are not 100% clear on this issue.

    Needless to say we know that sexuality is genetic and that gay men/women express different psychological characteristics. We also know that hormonal changes affect our psychological experience. So it's likely that there are heritable genetic products in the body that account for these differences.
    I should add the caveat though that the study I'm referencing mentioned atypical hormonal characteristics in the parents, I just assumed hormonal differences in the children. This study seems to give a sense of that:

    https://academic.oup.com/endo/articl...8/2937/2457178

    Many people believe that sexual orientation (homosexuality vs. heterosexuality) is determined by education and social constraints. There are, however, a large number of studies indicating that prenatal factors have an important influence on this critical feature of human sexuality. Sexual orientation is a sexually differentiated trait (over 90% of men are attracted to women and vice versa). In animals and men, many sexually differentiated characteristics are organized during early life by sex steroids, and one can wonder whether the same mechanism also affects human sexual orientation. Two types of evidence support this notion. First, multiple sexually differentiated behavioral, physiological, or even morphological traits are significantly different in homosexual and heterosexual populations. Because some of these traits are known to be organized by prenatal steroids, including testosterone, these differences suggest that homosexual subjects were, on average, exposed to atypical endocrine conditions during development. Second, clinical conditions associated with significant endocrine changes during embryonic life often result in an increased incidence of homosexuality. It seems therefore that the prenatal endocrine environment has a significant influence on human sexual orientation but a large fraction of the variance in this behavioral characteristic remains unexplained to date. Genetic differences affecting behavior either in a direct manner or by changing embryonic hormone secretion or action may also be involved. How these biological prenatal factors interact with postnatal social factors to determine life-long sexual orientation remains to be determined.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post

    I should add the caveat though that the study I'm referencing mentioned atypical hormonal characteristics in the parents, I just assumed hormonal differences in the children. This study seems to give a sense of that:

    https://academic.oup.com/endo/articl...8/2937/2457178

    Many people believe that sexual orientation (homosexuality vs. heterosexuality) is determined by education and social constraints. There are, however, a large number of studies indicating that prenatal factors have an important influence on this critical feature of human sexuality. Sexual orientation is a sexually differentiated trait (over 90% of men are attracted to women and vice versa). In animals and men, many sexually differentiated characteristics are organized during early life by sex steroids, and one can wonder whether the same mechanism also affects human sexual orientation. Two types of evidence support this notion. First, multiple sexually differentiated behavioral, physiological, or even morphological traits are significantly different in homosexual and heterosexual populations. Because some of these traits are known to be organized by prenatal steroids, including testosterone, these differences suggest that homosexual subjects were, on average, exposed to atypical endocrine conditions during development. Second, clinical conditions associated with significant endocrine changes during embryonic life often result in an increased incidence of homosexuality. It seems therefore that the prenatal endocrine environment has a significant influence on human sexual orientation but a large fraction of the variance in this behavioral characteristic remains unexplained to date. Genetic differences affecting behavior either in a direct manner or by changing embryonic hormone secretion or action may also be involved. How these biological prenatal factors interact with postnatal social factors to determine life-long sexual orientation remains to be determined.
    Pseudo-science. Did you actually read the article? Fifteen lines of weak or tangential evidence do not equal a substantial one.

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