Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 32

Thread: Are Gay Men Less Aggressive and Warlike?

  1. Top | #11
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    USA, California
    Posts
    2,846
    Archived
    5,710
    Total Posts
    8,556
    Rep Power
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post

    I should add the caveat though that the study I'm referencing mentioned atypical hormonal characteristics in the parents, I just assumed hormonal differences in the children. This study seems to give a sense of that:

    https://academic.oup.com/endo/articl...8/2937/2457178

    Many people believe that sexual orientation (homosexuality vs. heterosexuality) is determined by education and social constraints. There are, however, a large number of studies indicating that prenatal factors have an important influence on this critical feature of human sexuality. Sexual orientation is a sexually differentiated trait (over 90% of men are attracted to women and vice versa). In animals and men, many sexually differentiated characteristics are organized during early life by sex steroids, and one can wonder whether the same mechanism also affects human sexual orientation. Two types of evidence support this notion. First, multiple sexually differentiated behavioral, physiological, or even morphological traits are significantly different in homosexual and heterosexual populations. Because some of these traits are known to be organized by prenatal steroids, including testosterone, these differences suggest that homosexual subjects were, on average, exposed to atypical endocrine conditions during development. Second, clinical conditions associated with significant endocrine changes during embryonic life often result in an increased incidence of homosexuality. It seems therefore that the prenatal endocrine environment has a significant influence on human sexual orientation but a large fraction of the variance in this behavioral characteristic remains unexplained to date. Genetic differences affecting behavior either in a direct manner or by changing embryonic hormone secretion or action may also be involved. How these biological prenatal factors interact with postnatal social factors to determine life-long sexual orientation remains to be determined.
    Pseudo-science. Did you actually read the article? Fifteen lines of weak or tangential evidence do not equal a substantial one.
    That isn't pseudo-science.

  2. Top | #12
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    4,848
    Rep Power
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Is it true that homosexuality corollates with current hormone levels? I did not think so because giving people hormones does not change their sexuality. Post-menopausal women do not tend to become either gay or more aggressive. I don’t think?
    Current hormone levels in the blood don't appear to have much impact on sexual orientation, which seems to be largely "set" before birth by hormone-influenced brain developments in-utero. However, differences in hormone levels could still be a by-product of the factors that lead to homosexuality. There appear to be several studies from the 70's claiming lower testosterone level's in gay men, but my breif search didn't find anything more recent. Also, while testosterone levels is linked to physical aggression in males, it may function differently in females, and females may show aggressive behavior in other less physical ways.

  3. Top | #13
    Veteran Member Sarpedon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    MN, US
    Posts
    2,953
    Archived
    8,446
    Total Posts
    11,399
    Rep Power
    66
    Hmm, it seems I can think of plenty of homosexual warriors. Probably has the same percentage as the general population. (pun intended)

    Also, I would not accept unthinkingly the idea that women are naturally unwarlike. That they commit less violent crime is certain. Whether they would wage less war is questionable. It seems that throughout history such women leaders as there are don't seem to be more peaceful than men.

  4. Top | #14
    Super Moderator Bronzeage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    6,698
    Archived
    7,568
    Total Posts
    14,266
    Rep Power
    39
    Stereotypes are stereotypical.

    The stereotypical effeminate homosexual might be less aggressive and warlike, simply because aggressive and warlike are not considered feminine traits. If that is the only homosexuals one has ever observed, it would be easy to accept the stereotype.

    If one wants to judge if homosexuals are less aggressive and warlike, one needs to know all homosexuals. I've known homosexual body builders who turned to steroids to boost muscle mass increase. They become quite aggressive and warlike, but not the least bit homosexual.

    If anyone seriously thinks homosexuality tendencies are a matter of hormone level, it would have become the standard treatment in the 20th century. Hormone treatments can be used to reduce sex drive, which might make it appear a homosexual no longer desires men, but actually, he no longer desires anyone.

  5. Top | #15
    Veteran Member seyorni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,225
    Archived
    3,176
    Total Posts
    4,401
    Rep Power
    37
    A female brain in a male body? Less aggressive, I'd venture.

  6. Top | #16
    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    5,758
    Rep Power
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Another discussion sparked a curiosity and I don’t know the answer. Asking here.

    It is said that in general women are more cooperative and men are more antagonistic/warlike. How do gay men fit in to that pattern? Do they have a pattern? Scholarly answers appreciated. Feel free to also discuss whether my first assertion is even true, but what this thread is really about is discussion of aggressive behavior and whether gay men are any different from straight men, or transgender or non-binary.
    My guess would be that there are above-averagely hostile gay men, averagely-hostile gay men and below-averagely hostile gay men, spread out on something like a normal distribution curve. Such a curve might be slighter to the left (if that direction indicates lower hostility) than for straight men. In other words, pick two men (a gay man and a straight man) at random 100 times and the chances are that slightly more of the former will be the less hostile of the two. My guess would be that the differences are not sufficiently great to warrant making it a reliable assumption.

    Some quick googling suggests that there is evidence for this (see below for example), but that it is not conclusive.

    http://eprints.mdx.ac.uk/9456/1/Aggression.pdf

    Why it might be is another question. If it is the case, it could be nature or nurture or more likely a combination of both.

    Also, behaviours and attitudes described as antagonistic, aggressive or hostile can take many forms. There is a difference between the affective states and they way they are acted on. I think I remember reading somewhere that for example women 'get angry' as easily as men, but that they tend to process it less often as physical violence. The reasons are unclear. Perhaps something similar may happen between male orientations.

  7. Top | #17
    Cyborg with a Tiara
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Recluse
    Posts
    7,648
    Archived
    9,040
    Total Posts
    16,688
    Rep Power
    81
    Generally, I would not trust any “scholarly work” done about gays in teh 70s. So that’s not filling in any blanks for me. It is further curious, though, how many different hypotheses there are in this discussion. This suggests that there is not too much data, and none that people here have previously read. Which is a curiosity in itself.

    Interesting.

    Carry on...

  8. Top | #18
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Chochenyo Territory, US
    Posts
    2,336
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Generally, I would not trust any “scholarly work” done about gays in teh 70s. So that’s not filling in any blanks for me. It is further curious, though, how many different hypotheses there are in this discussion. This suggests that there is not too much data, and none that people here have previously read. Which is a curiosity in itself.

    Interesting.

    Carry on...
    There's not a whole lot of credible data, actually; most of the facts that "everyone knows" about gender and sex come from various generations of popular works.

  9. Top | #19
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Oregon's westernmost
    Posts
    10,965
    Archived
    18,213
    Total Posts
    29,178
    Rep Power
    53
    Gay doesn't really have anything to do with estrogen - testosterone fractions in the gay one. Gay probably does have something to do with those fractions in others.

  10. Top | #20
    Contributor ruby sparks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    5,758
    Rep Power
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Generally, I would not trust any “scholarly work” done about gays in teh 70s. So that’s not filling in any blanks for me. It is further curious, though, how many different hypotheses there are in this discussion. This suggests that there is not too much data, and none that people here have previously read. Which is a curiosity in itself.

    Interesting.

    Carry on...
    I think it's fair to say that nothing is conclusive, but the study I posted was from 2006, and cited several other studies from the 1990's onwards. I'm not sure if you were able to access it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •