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Thread: When's the last time you heard something new from the Christians?

  1. Top | #111
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post

    Thank you! Yes, exactly. That is a precise summary of the argument that is always proffered, and which I pointed out in my offensive post in this thread. If every time you encounter a novel idea you ignore it because it hasn't been embraced by "most" of the people you know, you will naturally come away with the impression that there are no novel ideas. The impression the OP is complaining about is a natural outcome of the belief that only common ideas should be considered legitimate topics of discussion, or even belonging to the tradition under discussion. You can only maintain the impression that Christianity (or Islam, or Buddhism, whichever) has no original thinkers is if you ignore the persistent minority fringe in those traditions.
    Or - maybe because your novel idea isn’t a “Christian” idea at all, and that makes it a derail in a thread about Christian ideas?

    Your ideas are novel, and interesting. Just not Christian since they do not follow the tenets of the religion and often contradict those tenets. If it’s the beliefs of a one person fringe, then it’s not really a “religion” at all.
    Again, if you define anything that is unfamiliar as being outside the tradition, naturally you will never again encounter a new idea within that tradition. It is pretty clear, there.

    I am once again tickled by the notion that I am the originator of... what, educated Christian agnosticism? You do me far too much honor, sir. I can't think of a single thing I believe that is actually unique. What are you even talking about?
    Didn’t say you were the originator, just said it was novel to me, some of what you say.


    Here’s the point, which you’ve been unable to alight upon:
    Christian apologists try to convert people with the same old tired not-believable stories century after century.
    Nothing convincing has been generated in all the time I’ve heard it.
    They all repeat the same short playlist in their conversion attempts.

    You are not trying to convert. Moreover, your ideas don’t actually represent anything that is novel in terms of believability, it’s just a different sort of not-believable, unrecognizable as Christian. When pressed as to whether you even ARE a Christian, you usually demur.

  2. Top | #112
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Here’s the point, which you’ve been unable to alight upon:
    Christian apologists try to convert people with the same old tired not-believable stories century after century.
    Nothing convincing has been generated in all the time I’ve heard it.
    They all repeat the same short playlist in their conversion attempts.
    And I explained exactly why it probably seems that way. What's the confusion?

  3. Top | #113
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    The confusion appears to be why you think your answer applies to this OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    The other thread got me thinking. It's been a long long time since I heard something novel from the Christians trying to explain their beliefs.
    Whether that be trying to sell their beliefs, or apologize for their beliefs or make excuses for their beliefs.

    I do hear things that are new about how to look at the Christian religion from a few atheists, mostly because there are so few out there, so I haven't heard as many and also because science keeps discovering new things that almost always make the bible less believable.

    But religion? All their stuff I heard 40 years ago, you know?

    When's the last time a christian gave you an argument that was new and you had to look stuff up and decide how you felt about it?
    First off, you generally decline to say that you are. Christian. Since this thread is clearly about Christians, and you usually saay you are not one,, one is unlikely to think that your opinions turn Christianity into something believable.

    You don’t appear to actually believe in Chritianity, you just say the book has stuff that you like and find useful and that you take as allegory or whatever and you’re fine with people calling you that because you’re familiar with it. So by your own words, you are not a Christian coming up with something actually novel and new about why a person should be convinced by Christianity.

    Second, what you say is personal interpretation, ususally, so it is neither bolstered nor refuted by looking things up. It’s just feelings. You don’t quote some truth or fact or story or event or even a book or a face on toast, you just say you feel good.

    I’m talking in this thread about people who do, definitely define themselves as christian and try to convince others to become christian and become convinced of christianity as fact. The thread is about attempts to convince people - to convert.

    You seem very put out that I won’t consider your ideas Christian when you yourself in your own thread say you don’t like to be considered just Christian. You are trying to re-write Christianity? That’s fine, you need to talk to the Christians about it and convince them of your truth.

    But if you really REALLY want to be known for coming up with the Big New Idea, the New Good News - tell me what is your best argument that will make me believe your woo? Let’s see if it’s something that would change a person’s mind! Something novel that requires me to look up details and think really deeply to not accept it. Let’s see what’s so compelling about your religion that you feel is so novel and not getting good airplay and is really convincing and is actually christianity.

  4. Top | #114
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Why would I have to have some grand project in mind for my statement to be true? That's all irrelevant... I could be Buddhist or Zoroastrian or an atheist, and my remarks on the silliness of your OP would be just as true.

  5. Top | #115
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    Politesse - I will broaden the question to ANY religion or belief in woo.

    What new and compelling information do you offer that it is true and believable?

    You seem to think that an answer to this question is, “I believe differently. I look at it differently. That’s novel.”

    But that is not the question. The question is what is your argument? What evidence are you presenting? What reason are you espousing for belief that is both NOVEL (different from reasons to believe already given out ad nauseum) and COMPELLING (cause the listener to pause and think, “Oh, thaat’s something to think about”)?

    I get that you think that WHAT you believe is novel and important.
    I am asking about HOW you believe.

    I don’t believe you have answered that question.

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