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Thread: How society protects predators and silences women and girls

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    Intergalactic Villainess Angry Floof's Avatar
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    How society protects predators and silences women and girls

    In patriarchy, no one can hear you scream

    Maybe one of the reasons rape has so often been portrayed as “a stranger leaps out of the bushes” is so we’ll imagine rapists acting alone. But in so many cases rapists have help in the moment and forever after, and the help is often so powerful, broad, and deep—well, that’s why we call it rape culture, and that’s why changing it means changing the whole culture. Sometimes it’s the family, community, church, campus looking the other way; sometimes it’s the criminal justice system. If Jeffrey Epstein goes to jail for the new round of indictments—which only came about because one investigative journalist, Julie K. Brown of the Miami Herald, did an extraordinary job of digging up what had been buried in his case—a host of people who knew, laughed, looked the other way, allegedly helped him sexually abuse children for years will still be at large, and the circumstances that allow other Epsteins to attack other children will still exist.
    Last edited by Angry Floof; 07-10-2019 at 07:37 PM. Reason: Fixed link.
    The Authoritarians

    GOP and Trump supporters will not be able to say they didn't know. Vote in numbers too big to manipulate.

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    Link is broken.

    Maybe one of the reasons rape has so often been portrayed as “a stranger leaps out of the bushes” is so we’ll imagine rapists acting alone.

    What is this about ? Where about is rape portrayed this way ? Movies perhaps ?

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    In the Trump rape thread, I tried to find what I thought would be a simple matter: what percentage of men commit sexual assault. I fully expected it to be a general estimate, but at least something somewhat ubiquitous. Google it. You won't find an answer. All that comes up is percentages of rapes where men are the victims and percentages of rapists in college.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Link is broken.

    Maybe one of the reasons rape has so often been portrayed as “a stranger leaps out of the bushes” is so we’ll imagine rapists acting alone.

    What is this about ? Where about is rape portrayed this way ? Movies perhaps ?
    Or dark alleys. Most rapes are not committed by strangers but by family members, intimate partners, acquaintances.

    Read any thread about rape on this forum and you will find it full of men insisting that it wasn’t really rape. Unless the accused is a black man and the victim is white. Then it’s much more likely to be considered rape. We have at least one member who will drag up some obscure case of a false or not proven case of rape, and multiple members who conflate false with unproven claims. Also splitting hairs about the cutoff for pedophila, and some who seem to believe if a girl has breasts, she’s ready for sex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Link is broken.

    Maybe one of the reasons rape has so often been portrayed as “a stranger leaps out of the bushes” is so we’ll imagine rapists acting alone.

    What is this about ? Where about is rape portrayed this way ? Movies perhaps ?
    Most rapes are not committed by strangers but by family members, intimate partners, acquaintances.
    I think most people know this.

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    Intergalactic Villainess Angry Floof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSwizzle View Post
    Link is broken.

    Maybe one of the reasons rape has so often been portrayed as “a stranger leaps out of the bushes” is so we’ll imagine rapists acting alone.

    What is this about ? Where about is rape portrayed this way ? Movies perhaps ?
    Or dark alleys. Most rapes are not committed by strangers but by family members, intimate partners, acquaintances.

    Read any thread about rape on this forum and you will find it full of men insisting that it wasn’t really rape. Unless the accused is a black man and the victim is white. Then it’s much more likely to be considered rape. We have at least one member who will drag up some obscure case of a false or not proven case of rape, and multiple members who conflate false with unproven claims. Also splitting hairs about the cutoff for pedophila, and some who seem to believe if a girl has breasts, she’s ready for sex.
    The point made in the article was that rape is culturally portrayed (or misportrayed) as a stranger jumping out of the bushes when in fact, rapists are often not strangers, but even more importantly to the point, rapists are helped and supported and protected by society as victims are dismissed, shamed, and demonized. The stranger jumping out of the bushes is a fairy tale that is comforting to men because it makes it easier for them to distance themselves from what they contribute to society and culture, whether they themselves are rapists or just men who look the other way.
    The Authoritarians

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    Even if "a host" of people looked the other way, how does that imply we have a "rape culture"?

    How many people do you think condone child rape? Do you have any idea where in the pecking order pedophile prisoners are? (HINT: you are better off in the literal torture of isolation).

    If my nieces or nephews were being fiddled with, I wouldn't look the other way. Even if 20% of people do, that doesn't mean we live in a "pedophile" culture. Oy gevalt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Even if "a host" of people looked the other way, how does that imply we have a "rape culture"?

    How many people do you think condone child rape? Do you have any idea where in the pecking order pedophile prisoners are? (HINT: you are better off in the literal torture of isolation).

    If my nieces or nephews were being fiddled with, I wouldn't look the other way. Even if 20% of people do, that doesn't mean we live in a "pedophile" culture. Oy gevalt.
    Look at the resistance to recognizing and rectifying the sexual abuse of children by priests. The resistance isn't completely from Church authorities. Look at how long Sandusky was protected and how many people STILL believe that those men came forward looking for money and that nothing happened. A lot of people looked away and enabled him. Michael Jackson. Bill Cosby. Donald Trump. Bill Clinton.

    I think that a lot of it has to do with people not wanting to believe that other people can do something so terrible. Look at the Holocaust deniers--or at the Holocaust itself.

    It's worse when the perpetrator is someone who is respected, admired. In a position of authority. We want to trust the people we admire. We need to trust the people we admire.

    We let people we admire because of their talent, their power, their wealth, their relationship to us get away with despicable behavior because it is on some levels beyond our ability to believe that someone that we admire and respect for (insert attributes) could also be a sick, terrible human being who hurts others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    I think that a lot of it has to do with people not wanting to believe that other people can do something so terrible.
    I would call that an antirape culture. I mean, the people who had good evidence but didn't believe are delusional, but if they doubt and cover up because rape is too horrid to think about, in what universe is that a (pro)rape culture?


    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    We let people we admire because of their talent, their power, their wealth, their relationship to us get away with despicable behavior because it is on some levels beyond our ability to believe that someone that we admire and respect for (insert attributes) could also be a sick, terrible human being who hurts others.
    That doesn't describe a 'rape' culture to me. That describes, perhaps, an 'internalised authoritarian' culture, maybe.

    But, we live in a universe where NOW gave Emma Sulkowicz a 'Woman of Courage' award for lying about rape and destroying a man's life. Does that sound like something that would happen in a 'rape' culture?

    We live in a culture where a significant fraction of the community wishes to reverse the burden of proof on to the accused in rape trials. Is that a 'rape' culture?

    We live in a culture where any utterance, by a woman, about a man who has trespassed against her, is to be 'listened and believed'. Does that sound like a 'rape' culture?

    We do not live in a rape culture (in the West). There is probably a 'rape' subculture among some groups, just as there are subcultures in every society. When George Pell was accused (but not yet convicted), I did not see a single skeptical post on my social media feeds. The only posts were from people certain that if there was an accusation, there was guilt.

    This is not a rape culture.

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    Veteran Member prideandfall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    That doesn't describe a 'rape' culture to me. That describes, perhaps, an 'internalised authoritarian' culture, maybe.
    i don't think the two are necessarily mutually exclusive - a culture that routinely protects rapists and excuses sexually exploitative behavior because of an internalized authoritarian streak doesn't mean that routinely protecting rapists and excusing sexually exploitative behavior isn't indicative of rape culture.

    there doesn't need to be a mustache-twirling undercurrent within the cultural zeitgeist going "mwuhahaha fuck yeah dude let's RAPE SOME BITCHES WOO" for that culture to pervasively and institutionally conduct itself in a way that shelters rapists and socially victimizes women for being raped.

    But, we live in a universe where NOW gave Emma Sulkowicz a 'Woman of Courage' award for lying about rape and destroying a man's life. Does that sound like something that would happen in a 'rape' culture?
    yes, absolutely it does, for the same reason that putting on assless leather chaps and a giant strap-on dildo and waggling it at people on the street sounds like something that would happen at a gay pride parade - because when a group of people are subjected to oppression or mistreated in a specific way for long enough without redress, they kinda flip the fuck out a bit and rebel against the norms that are built of the society oppressing them.

    so yeah, in a society where rapists are regularly protected and women are regularly denigrated, an organization dedicated to women and the advancement of their place in society is going to give an award to someone who stridently advocated for victims of rape speaking out and pursuing justice.

    We live in a culture where a significant fraction of the community wishes to reverse the burden of proof on to the accused in rape trials. Is that a 'rape' culture?
    well that's just a completely baseless and utterly bullshit pronouncement from out of the dark end of your ass, so there's nothing to say to that.

    We live in a culture where any utterance, by a woman, about a man who has trespassed against her, is to be 'listened and believed'. Does that sound like a 'rape' culture?
    when those advocating that they be "listened to and believed" are almost exclusively WOMEN who are sick of being raped without any sort of legal or social recourse? yeah, it kinda does sound like they're reacting to a 'rape culture.'

    We do not live in a rape culture (in the West). There is probably a 'rape' subculture among some groups, just as there are subcultures in every society. When George Pell was accused (but not yet convicted), I did not see a single skeptical post on my social media feeds. The only posts were from people certain that if there was an accusation, there was guilt.

    This is not a rape culture.
    in the west we are currently actively aware of no less than 10 distinct and ongoing scenarios wherein men raped women for decades while those around them bent over backwards to protect them, legally and socially.
    in the US at least 30 states have required significant citizen activism to get them to even bother tested rape kits, and several states require rape victims to pay for their own testing and other investigative fees.
    in the west we are currently actively supporting the largest child rape organization active in the world (the catholic church) and are utterly socially incapable of even uttering the notion that we might want to maybe do something about that.

    this may not be gang-raping in the street, but this is definitely a culture that routinely either explicitly advocates or at least tacitly tolerates widespread rape.

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