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Thread: How society protects predators and silences women and girls

  1. Top | #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koyaanisqatsi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor
    I'm snipping the rest of your "evidence" because it contradicts nothing I've said.
    You mean aside from your pathetic attempt to flip the table and demand “where is your evidence” from me?

    Aside from that it contradicts literally everything you’ve said
    It contradicts nothing. I said at the beginning that Australia has no laws that discriminate against gay people, that the corporate culture in Australia celebrates LGBT people, and that far less than half the population show any kind of animus towards gay people.

    And as I said before, I am not going to tar an entire culture with the actions and attitudes of a minority subculture. So fuck you.

    and proves that there is still a very prevalent and abusive homophobic culture in Australia—underneath the grand facade or not—and that it continues to stigmatize and affect countless lives, from 61% of gay school-aged children to anyone evidently taking their lives into their own hands by going to something as culturally diverse as a fucking football match.
    I like how the feelings of people matter when the people are presumably on your side. If a Christian said he felt afraid and persecuted in Australia you'd chimp out.

    I noticed you conveniently glossed over the fact that 82% of gay people in Australia reported homophobic incidents—and that they believe they have an 84% chance of being physically abused—at a goddamned sporting event and that 1 out 2 gay people report a homophobic work environment. But that somehow translates into there being no “homophobic culture” in Australia.
    Maybe they have the same "standard" as you. That if there are two homophobic bullies in ten, then the entire group can be labelled as having a "homophobic culture".

    Evidently only in your mind.

    When 61% of gay school children and 82% of gay sports fans and 50% of gay working professionals all affirm homophobia in the schools, public social events and in the workplace, guess what genius? You live in a homophobic culture.
    Homophobia exists. Even in a culture where homophobic feelings are held by a minority, that minority can make an environment uncomfortable for gay people. That doesn't mean that it is a homophobic culture, for the same reason that one bully in the playground doesn't make the playground a bully culture.

    So now that we have conclusively established (a) your opinion is worthless and (b) Australia most definitely still suffers from a homophobic culture, let's get back to the actual topic, which is more about rape culture than homophobic culture.
    Rape culture also doesn't exist.

  2. Top | #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Rape culture also doesn't exist.


    In your opinion, based entirely upon a completely unsupportable semantic argument that a "culture" can only be defined by a monolithic majority of citizens who lack a certain opinion, ignoring completely the fact that a minority of bullies do indeed rule the playground and have both the power and the will to shape that culture any way they choose and that no voting booth can ever counter.

    Do the majority create all of the news and entertainment that the citizens watch that can reinforce any culture category in a myriad of conscious and subconscious ways? No.

    Do the majority create all of the laws and appoint all of the judges and make all of the policies and hire the police that can reinforce any culture category in a myriad of conscious and subconscious ways? No.

    Do the majority hire the teachers and the principals and the professors and the deans of the schools that can reinforce any culture category in a myriad of conscious and subconscious ways? No.

    Do the majority STOP the minority bullies from acting before causing harm in a myriad of conscious and subconscious ways? No.

    So what would be a good indicator of a particular culture; that 51% signed a petition condemning a particular opinion, or that 1 out of every 2 professionals within that targeted culture reported that in spite of that petition, they are still within in a homophobic work environment and 61% of the children within that targeted culture reported a homophobic school environment and that 82% of the adults in that targeted culture reported homophobic attacks at something as universally public as a sporting event?

    A petition affirming majority opinion on the one hand, or the majority daily experiences of the targeted group on the other? Which one better defines the culture such targeted individuals find themselves within? A piece of paper or being attacked at a football match or a school playground or at work? Hmmmmmmm. What in the world would define that culture of abuse for the ones who are actually victimized by it? A piece of paper with well meaning signatures on it, or broken ribs 84% of the time you want to go watch a fucking game?

    Gee that's a tough one.

    Aside from the profound myopic sophistry of your position that simply ignores the complex, hierarchical structures inherent to both a society and its various cultures, rape is not a belief or an opinion. So rape culture would have nothing to do with what a majority of citizens believe or affirm in a poll. It would instead have everything to do with how a minority of citizens behave.

    A minority of citizens like those who create the news and the entertainment that in a myriad of ways supports or otherwise dilutes/confuses/misconstrues pertinent aspects of the abuse; those who create the laws and appoint the judges and make all the policies and hire the police that in a myriad of different ways reinforces or otherwise dilutes/confuses/misconstrues pertinent aspects of the abuse; those who hire the teachers and the principals and the professors and the deans of the schools who....etc., etc., etc.

    To say nothing of the fact that a minority commit the abuse.

    Such that, believe it or not, for the majority of the targeted class of the abuse, they don't seem to agree with your opinion that it's only a monolithic majority of signatures on a petition that defines the culture of abuse they experience on a daily basis, because, unlike you, they aren't drawing an arbitrary line at semantics or only defining the word "culture," well, culturally.

    As incredible as it's going to seem to you, some people are using the word "culture" to apply to the actions AND the beliefs of a pervasive minority--and majority--within subsections of the country as well as in regard to the country as a whole. It's not just about first imagining a monolithic majority and asking its opinion.

    And some are using it as an indictment against those who proclaim to hold a certain positive opinion, yet still don't act on that opinion when it comes time to use their individual power to vote or otherwise stand up and fight when it matters the most (at the point of and just after the abuse).

    Like with your example of holding hands with your boyfriend and you noted that everyone else just minded their business instead of doing what they should have done as a monolithic entity; actively rise up together and at least verbally condemn the asshole for his comment and shamed him for being the bully on the playground.

    What you're conveniently ignoring is that those people you praised for minding their own business did, in fact, act by not acting. So it doesn't really matter all that much that someone voted their conscience or signed a petition or went to a gay pride parade if they never stand with the abused against the abusers when they attack.

    That other stuff is great on paper, of course and certainly strides forward, but unless we're talking about actions not merely opinions, then, well, 50% in the workplace get attacked; 61% in the schools get attacked; 84% at public sporting events; etc., regardless of what laws may be on the books or how many people voted in an election.

    So, once again, your worthless opinion is noted and summarily dismissed.

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