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Thread: Young people turning to alternative religions and woo-woo

  1. Top | #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tammuz View Post
    Magical thinking has always been with us, either in the form of traditional religion, or in the form of spirituality/New Age.
    I would say that what we call "spirtuality/ New Age" is more of a return to more traditional forms of religion that were overshadowed by the rise in prominence of the major world religions, particularly the Abrahamic faiths.

    Interesting that it seems to coincide with the end of the agricultural era.

  2. Top | #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tammuz View Post
    Magical thinking has always been with us, either in the form of traditional religion, or in the form of spirituality/New Age.
    I would say that what we call "spirtuality/ New Age" is more of a return to more traditional forms of religion that were overshadowed by the rise in prominence of the major world religions, particularly the Abrahamic faiths.

    Interesting that it seems to coincide with the end of the agricultural era.
    Flat earth and moon landing hoaxers would fit into the category of alternative woo, I would think.

    Why is the flat earth round and not some kind of asymmetric shape? Why isn't the flat earth square? How does a flat earther know how thick to make the magic disc? Is the thickness unimportant, are flat earthers spatially challenged in their thinking?

  3. Top | #13
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Astrology Birtherism

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's latest controversy is her astrology chart - "Twitter users who care deeply about astrology are convinced that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez faked her birth time for ... a better natal chart."

    Arthur Lipp-Bonewits on Twitter: "GUYS I GOT ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ’S BIRTH TIME
    11:50AM!
    Thank you THANK YOU @AOC and your staff for being willing to share this information! The astrological community thanks you! https://t.co/wbCi8CIZ0G" / Twitter

    Presumably local time - she was born October 13, 1989, in the Bronx, New York, New York, USA. Anything larger is shared with the rest of humanity and it thus not distinctive.

    It got these responses:

    Samuel F. Reynolds on Twitter: "@MissLeoraGreen @lipandbone @AOC I mean, as accurate as anyone ever giving their birth info without even seeing the birth certificate. And even then that's no guarantee since birth certificates can be wrong too, and often are." / Twitter

    S.J. Anderson on Twitter: "@sfreynolds @MissLeoraGreen @lipandbone @AOC This. Especially given the rumors of politicians giving false times to throw people off their astro scent. I'm not making any definitive claims about this case, but the fake out possibly is good to remember as one that's plausible." / Twitter

    (some more tweets in this vein)

    Helike as in Ἑλίκη ⚕ on Twitter: "@_nishades @lipandbone @sfreynolds @LeisaSchaim @sjanderson144 @MissLeoraGreen @AOC It’s more like what she’d lose from the truth. It’s only relatively recently in human history that people stopped using magic and astrology in government and there is a part of my brain that says they did not actually stop." / Twitter

    Alex Tsioropoulos on Twitter: "AOC’s birth time is for astrology twitter what Obama’s birth certificate was for Tea Party land https://t.co/K6K55CZ8SC" / Twitter

    Vivian on Twitter: "i cannot make this up: there is an actual debate in the comments about whether AOC deliberately lied about her birth time in order to make her birth chart seem more appealing..." / Twitter

  4. Top | #14
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    What would these astrologers say about AOC if they didn't know who she is? Like give them her birthplace and birth time but say that she is some bartender in a Manhattan taco joint named Lucy Flores. Which AOC was until a year and a half ago.

    The Rise of Progressive Occultism - The American Interest
    More importantly, however, AOC’s gambit taps into the way in which progressive millennials have appropriated the rhetoric, imagery, and rituals of what was once called the “New Age”—from astrology to witchcraft—as both a political and spiritual statement of identity.

    For an increasing number of left-leaning millennials—more and more of whom do not belong to any organized religion—occult spirituality isn’t just a form of personal practice, self-care with more sage. Rather, it’s a metaphysical canvas for the American culture wars in the post-Trump era: pitting the self-identified Davids of seemingly secular progressivism against the Goliath of nationalist evangelical Christianity.
    I think that that is reading too much into her action - she may simply have wanted to be helpful.

    Inside the Bizarre Astrological Drama over Hillary Clinton's Birth Chart - VICE
    For decades, political astrologers have been furiously debating what time Hillary Clinton was born: It could mean the difference between an eminent chart for the former presidential candidate and a "shitty" one.
    Was she born on 8 am? Or on 8 pm? Astrologers have argued about that for a long time.

    But if 8 am vs. 8 pm makes such a big difference, then Sun Sign astrology is worthless.

  5. Top | #15
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    I feel stupid about repeating myself on this subject.

    Let's look at the five factors of the Big Five model - Big Five personality traits

    • Extraversion (or Extroversion) vs. Introversion -- outgoing/energetic vs. solitary/reserved
    • Openness vs. Closedness to Experience -- inventive/curious vs. consistent/cautious
    • Conscientiousness vs. Impulsiveness -- efficient/organized vs. easy-going/careless
    • Agreeableness vs. Antagonism -- friendly/compassionate vs. challenging/detached
    • Neuroticism or Negative Emotionality vs. Emotional Stability -- sensitive/nervous vs. secure/confident


    Extroversion: AOC is very outgoing and energetic. High.

    Openness to Experience: AOC is well-read, and she likes art and music. Her office has had copies of the Federalist Papers and a book on climate-change disasters, and also cardboard cutouts of Wonder Woman and Cardi B's head. High.

    Conscientiousness: AOC did well in a high-school science project and in college. She helped plan her road trip from NYC to Standing Rock, and she spent two years on nearly nonstop campaigning for a US House of Representatives seat. Once in office, she has distinguished herself with her careful questioning of witnesses in hearings. High.

    Agreeableness: AOC is very friendly, and she has shown such compassion as hugging inmates of border camps. However, she is not a doormat. High.

    Neuroticism: More difficult to tell from outward behavior, but AOC doesn't seem very glum or anxious or irritable or easily angered. Low?

  6. Top | #16
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    It goes far back. Movies in the 30s-40s were filled with the superbatural.

    Somerset Mall's book and movie Lost Horizon about a secret valley in the Himalayas where people age slowly. Many other movies. A Brit spends a few months on a mountain in India and comes back with ancient wisdom and insight.

    In the 60s we had the British music invasion. We also had the Indian mystic invation. Self proclaimed gurs setting up shop in the USA. The Maharishi and Transcendental Meditation. They used to offer classes in levitation.

    Young people rejected mainstream Christian culrture and looked for something else.

    As Joseph Camp[bell put it, China was closed to foreigners. That left India as the mysterious other world east.

    There is an old Bogart WWII movie where Sydney Greenstreet plays an American infatuated with Japanese culture.

    It accelerated in the 60s. The west somehow did not 'get it', while the tumultuous unstable east knew some great secret. The idea the east is somehow better in the face of observation.

  7. Top | #17
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    Believing in magic is fun. The world being mysterious is fun.

    This is why truth means so little to most of us. The materialist wonders why we don't teach critical thinking, but the truth is people usually don't want to think critically beyond their own biases and prejudices.

  8. Top | #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    Believing in magic is fun. The world being mysterious is fun.

    This is why truth means so little to most of us. The materialist wonders why we don't teach critical thinking, but the truth is people usually don't want to think critically beyond their own biases and prejudices.
    I see that People want understanding and so appeal to magic as a way to answer questions about something we don't understand. It isn't the only method of reaching an understanding but it is much easier than the alternative. So it fits with another human trait... people are lazy.
    Last edited by skepticalbip; 08-21-2019 at 11:06 PM.

  9. Top | #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    Believing in magic is fun. The world being mysterious is fun.

    This is why truth means so little to most of us. The materialist wonders why we don't teach critical thinking, but the truth is people usually don't want to think critically beyond their own biases and prejudices.
    I see that People want understanding and an appeal to magic as a way to answer questions about something we don't understand. It isn't the only method of reaching an understanding but it is much easier than the alternative. So it fits with another human trait... people are lazy.
    Even more common than laziness is that people stop seeking when they're satisfied with their answer, and often choose the answer that they already want to believe.

    Magic and mystery are fun. People not only have no interest in reality, but they deliberately avoid learning about it.

  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
    Believing in magic is fun. The world being mysterious is fun.

    This is why truth means so little to most of us. The materialist wonders why we don't teach critical thinking, but the truth is people usually don't want to think critically beyond their own biases and prejudices.
    Fun is woo of the highest order. One does a ritual like playing a game and somehow it is 'fun'.

    I have no idea what fun means. I generally always felt good, even when doing hard difficult work. Can hard work be fun? Other than chess I have never played games, never had a need to for 'fun' as something different from other things.

    Fun is like a religion.

    BTW, are we having fun yet? Is there a 'fun again experience like born again?

    Hope I am not spoiling your fun.

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