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Thread: The Thirty Meter Telescope - construction will begin

  1. Top | #61
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    "Big Island" is a local name for the biggest of the Hawaiian Islands, Hawaii itself. Its name is properly Hawai'i, with a glottal stop (pause) between the two i's.

    "Mauna Kea" means "White Mountain" in the Hawaiian language. That language has noun-adjective order instead of adjective-noun, so it's "mountain white". Looking at a nearby mountain, "Mauna Loa" means "long mountain". The Hawaiian word for mountain is mauna, with the au pronounced like the ow of "meow". That is a linguistic coincidence, since most Hawaiian words have no resemblance to English ones.

    The Numbers List
    Hawaiian 1 ‘e-kahi 2 ‘e-lua 3 ‘e-kolu 4 ‘e-hā 5 ‘e-lima 6 ‘e-ono 7 ‘e-hiku 8 ‘e-walu 9 ‘e-iwa 10 ‘umi

  2. Top | #62
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    "Big Island" is a local name for the biggest of the Hawaiian Islands, Hawaii itself. Its name is properly Hawai'i, with a glottal stop (pause) between the two i's.

    "Mauna Kea" means "White Mountain" in the Hawaiian language. That language has noun-adjective order instead of adjective-noun, so it's "mountain white". Looking at a nearby mountain, "Mauna Loa" means "long mountain". The Hawaiian word for mountain is mauna, with the au pronounced like the ow of "meow". That is a linguistic coincidence, since most Hawaiian words have no resemblance to English ones.

    The Numbers List
    Hawaiian 1 ‘e-kahi 2 ‘e-lua 3 ‘e-kolu 4 ‘e-hā 5 ‘e-lima 6 ‘e-ono 7 ‘e-hiku 8 ‘e-walu 9 ‘e-iwa 10 ‘umi
    Polynesian languages don't have composite vowels, or silent ones; Every vowel is pronounced, and pronounced on its own, so in Mauna the 'au' is pronounced as two separate vowels - a hard 'a' as in 'cat', followed by a 'u' as in 'rum'. If you run them together a bit, the 'ow' from 'meow' is a fair approximation for an english speaker, but it's not quite right.

    The two 'i' sounds at the end of Hawaii are similar - each of the three vowels should be pronounced in quick succession, a-i-i, rapid but distinct. It's very musical, but can be difficult to get used to if you are more familiar with the compound vowels in English.

    The International Airport in Tahiti is at Faaa, and three identical vowels in a row can be very challenging for English speakers and French speakers alike. Sometimes the locals take pity on us haoles, and chuck in an apostrophe to indicate that the vowels are separate individual sounds, as in Hawai'i of Faa'a. Though maybe Hawa'i'i and Fa'a'a would be even more helpful.

  3. Top | #63
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    "Big Island" is a local name for the biggest of the Hawaiian Islands, Hawaii itself. Its name is properly Hawai'i, with a glottal stop (pause) between the two i's.

    "Mauna Kea" means "White Mountain" in the Hawaiian language. That language has noun-adjective order instead of adjective-noun, so it's "mountain white". Looking at a nearby mountain, "Mauna Loa" means "long mountain". The Hawaiian word for mountain is mauna, with the au pronounced like the ow of "meow". That is a linguistic coincidence, since most Hawaiian words have no resemblance to English ones.

    The Numbers List
    Hawaiian 1 ‘e-kahi 2 ‘e-lua 3 ‘e-kolu 4 ‘e-hā 5 ‘e-lima 6 ‘e-ono 7 ‘e-hiku 8 ‘e-walu 9 ‘e-iwa 10 ‘umi
    Polynesian languages don't have composite vowels, or silent ones; Every vowel is pronounced, and pronounced on its own, so in Mauna the 'au' is pronounced as two separate vowels - a hard 'a' as in 'cat', followed by a 'u' as in 'rum'. If you run them together a bit, the 'ow' from 'meow' is a fair approximation for an english speaker, but it's not quite right.

    The two 'i' sounds at the end of Hawaii are similar - each of the three vowels should be pronounced in quick succession, a-i-i, rapid but distinct. It's very musical, but can be difficult to get used to if you are more familiar with the compound vowels in English.

    The International Airport in Tahiti is at Faaa, and three identical vowels in a row can be very challenging for English speakers and French speakers alike. Sometimes the locals take pity on us haoles, and chuck in an apostrophe to indicate that the vowels are separate individual sounds, as in Hawai'i of Faa'a. Though maybe Hawa'i'i and Fa'a'a would be even more helpful.
    Dunno who told you this. Hawaiian does have long dipthongs (such as those you are describing here) but also short ones. While fluent speakers will definitely hit both vowels in the process of vocalizing them, there shouldn't be an actual vocal stop in the middle of a Hawaiian short dipthong, so Hawa'i'i is definitely wrong. The ai in Hawaii should glide smoothly together; there's only a noticeable glottal partition between the two i i.

  4. Top | #64
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    "Big Island" is a local name for the biggest of the Hawaiian Islands, Hawaii itself. Its name is properly Hawai'i, with a glottal stop (pause) between the two i's.

    "Mauna Kea" means "White Mountain" in the Hawaiian language. That language has noun-adjective order instead of adjective-noun, so it's "mountain white". Looking at a nearby mountain, "Mauna Loa" means "long mountain". The Hawaiian word for mountain is mauna, with the au pronounced like the ow of "meow". That is a linguistic coincidence, since most Hawaiian words have no resemblance to English ones.

    The Numbers List
    Hawaiian 1 ‘e-kahi 2 ‘e-lua 3 ‘e-kolu 4 ‘e-hā 5 ‘e-lima 6 ‘e-ono 7 ‘e-hiku 8 ‘e-walu 9 ‘e-iwa 10 ‘umi
    Polynesian languages don't have composite vowels, or silent ones; Every vowel is pronounced, and pronounced on its own, so in Mauna the 'au' is pronounced as two separate vowels - a hard 'a' as in 'cat', followed by a 'u' as in 'rum'. If you run them together a bit, the 'ow' from 'meow' is a fair approximation for an english speaker, but it's not quite right.

    The two 'i' sounds at the end of Hawaii are similar - each of the three vowels should be pronounced in quick succession, a-i-i, rapid but distinct. It's very musical, but can be difficult to get used to if you are more familiar with the compound vowels in English.

    The International Airport in Tahiti is at Faaa, and three identical vowels in a row can be very challenging for English speakers and French speakers alike. Sometimes the locals take pity on us haoles, and chuck in an apostrophe to indicate that the vowels are separate individual sounds, as in Hawai'i of Faa'a. Though maybe Hawa'i'i and Fa'a'a would be even more helpful.
    Dunno who told you this. Hawaiian does have long dipthongs (such as those you are describing here) but also short ones. While fluent speakers will definitely hit both vowels in the process of vocalizing them, there shouldn't be an actual vocal stop in the middle of a Hawaiian short dipthong, so Hawa'i'i is definitely wrong. The ai in Hawaii should glide smoothly together; there's only a noticeable glottal partition between the two i i.
    It's from a Tahitian friend - maybe the French Polynesians are more inclined to separate their vowels than the Hawaiians.

    Or maybe he was just oversimplifying it for me.

  5. Top | #65
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post

    Dunno who told you this. Hawaiian does have long dipthongs (such as those you are describing here) but also short ones. While fluent speakers will definitely hit both vowels in the process of vocalizing them, there shouldn't be an actual vocal stop in the middle of a Hawaiian short dipthong, so Hawa'i'i is definitely wrong. The ai in Hawaii should glide smoothly together; there's only a noticeable glottal partition between the two i i.
    It's from a Tahitian friend - maybe the French Polynesians are more inclined to separate their vowels than the Hawaiians.

    Or maybe he was just oversimplifying it for me.
    Similarly, I know little about Tahiti. Though it is on my list of places to visit sometime.

  6. Top | #66
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    No safe haven for the Thirty Meter Telescope | Science
    The Native Hawaiian protesters blocking the construction of the Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) on the summit of Mauna Kea appear to have settled in for the long haul. After 2 months of protests, their encampment on the Mauna Kea access road has shops, a cafeteria, and meeting spaces. The stalemate between astronomers eager to build one of the world's next great telescopes and opponents, many of whom believe the site is sacred, has shifted attention to the TMT's "plan B," an alternative site on La Palma, one of Spain's Canary Islands. But La Palma is beginning to look like another bed of nails for the project. Astronomers say the site is inferior for observations. Some TMT partners are reluctant to make the move and could withdraw from the $1.4 billion project. And a determined environmental group on La Palma is already fighting the TMT in the courts.
    So it has objectors in both places.

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