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Thread: Brain-in-a-vat argument v. Our universe is a simulation

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    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    A simulation is real, our mental experience of the world is a real experience.
    It's a real simulation of a real experience. We are in a real universe but can only experience it as a simulation. It's missing some of the information which the brain fills in for us. Really.

  2. Top | #32
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    That's not do to with anything other than materiality. No two bodies can be in the same place at the same time. A simulation is an approximation of what is processed from one's sensing of the effects of the environment put to the sensors.

    Also, the information the brain puts in for us is the result of adaptation over time which may a may not better reflect the most appropriate information to fill in.

    There is no principle of decreasing variance in evolutionary theory or physical theory for what the brain develops as a theater for one's perceptions.

    Not a single sense ore even aspect of a sense comes anywhere near the ideal observer. One might think four photons is pretty impressive, but one quantum should be the ideal since it is possible to effect physical change thus - electron level is an example. As a result the sloppiness of sensation is a big factor in deciding that quantum level operations are not involved in thinking.

    Yeah. Messing with philosophy with information science again.

  3. Top | #33
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    A simulation is real, our mental experience of the world is a real experience.
    It's a real simulation of a real experience. We are in a real universe but can only experience it as a simulation. It's missing some of the information which the brain fills in for us. Really.
    What is 'reality?' On the physics of scale, the universe may be reduced to quantum field energy/wave peaks, ephemeral yet seemingly solid and real on macro scale.

  4. Top | #34
    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Treedbear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    A simulation is real, our mental experience of the world is a real experience.
    It's a real simulation of a real experience. We are in a real universe but can only experience it as a simulation. It's missing some of the information which the brain fills in for us. Really.
    What is 'reality?' On the physics of scale, the universe may be reduced to quantum field energy/wave peaks, ephemeral yet seemingly solid and real on macro scale.
    Reality is all that which exists. We create one simulation of the quantum dimension and one of the macro dimension and we try to reconcile them into one harmonious simulation. But where they conflict they are not "real". In the same way, I think, that mental experience, or conscious experience, or consciousness as it were, is a simulation. Actually the word simulation is a good stand-in for it because we have a model of the world and a model of the self and the conscious experience is the interaction between the two. At least that's my opinion.

  5. Top | #35
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    Semantics again.

    Direct perceptions, experiences, and thinking causes direct physical changes in our neural net. It is not a simulation of reality, it is reality. Based on experience the brain projects into the future. A car comes toward you and you know to step aside.

  6. Top | #36
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Both the external world and the brains mental representation of the external world are real, each in their own way.

  7. Top | #37
    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Both the external world and the brains mental representation of the external world are real, each in their own way.
    Of course. But the reality of the brain's mental representation of the external world is confined to a more limited context because it exists within the reality of the external world. The reality of the external world, in principle, exists within no larger context. And, in principle, there should be no contradiction between them.

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