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Thread: The effects of warming: Kilodeaths

  1. Top | #91
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Nitpicking over irrelevant details, conjuring emotion where there was no emotion not being silly enough, now you are misrepresenting my use of OMG? That's sad.

    A waste of time, Sweetie.. I'll leave you to argue with your own strawman. You are good at that.

  2. Top | #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Now you are misrepresenting my use of OMG. A waste of time. I'll leave you to argue with your own strawman.
    I'm not referencing your use of "OMG". The world doesn't revolve around you. I'm illustrating the (expected, and possibly intended) reaction of a reader unaware of the improvmentes in nutrition that have been achieved globally over the last decades when being hit by a big-scary-number like 900 million without any context. Which makes using it without context or qualification an appeal to emotion.

    Even a little word "still" (as in "there are still 900 million hungry") would have helped a lot not to make it look like one wants the audience to conclude that the downward spiral has already begun and oh my god, there's simply too many of us as is. Without any context or qualification, the figure, accurate as it was/is, is more likely to mislead than inform the average reader.

  3. Top | #93
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Still irrelevant.

  4. Top | #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Still irrelevant.
    When discussing whether the world is or will be overpopulated now or in the near or farther future, the fact that 12% hungry is the lowest rate in history is a not irrelevant.

    The fact that the situation re climate change is looking dire (and more so than 10 years ago) but focussing on the wrong problems isn't going to solve it is not irrelevant when discussing whether and how we can.

    Not so for anyone interested in doing something about the very real - and pressing - problems of the real world.

  5. Top | #95
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Enthusiasm builds for 'Blue New Deal' after climate town hall | TheHill
    A fisherman asked a question at CNN’s climate town hall this past week that got Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) very excited.

    With all the focus on protecting land from global warming, he said, what about the other 70 percent of Earth? Do we need a “Blue New Deal” to protect the oceans?

    “I like that!” Warren responded. “He’s got it exactly right, we need a Blue New Deal.”

  6. Top | #96
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokodo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Still irrelevant.
    When discussing whether the world is or will be overpopulated now or in the near or farther future, the fact that 12% hungry is the lowest rate in history is a not irrelevant.

    The fact that the situation re climate change is looking dire (and more so than 10 years ago) but focussing on the wrong problems isn't going to solve it is not irrelevant when discussing whether and how we can.

    Not so for anyone interested in doing something about the very real - and pressing - problems of the real world.
    It's still not about past hunger rates or current hunger rates but the projected conditions as climate change effects production and supply in a world of ever growing demand as living standards are raised in developing countries ....which means that your line of argument has no point,. As the issue relates to possible conditions from mid century onwards, your objections are not relevant.
    Last edited by DBT; 09-11-2019 at 11:17 PM.

  7. Top | #97
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    The UN says that 'food security' which had been globally rising is now declining due to climate change.

    The Univ Of Washington predicts the Columbia River will lower due to reduced snowpacks. The Columbia provides water for farming in Eastern Washington and Oregon.

    As to overpopulation we are already seeing the effects. The last wave of immigrants walking across Europe and the crisis at our southern border. Growing numbers of people who have no hope and no future.

    In Africa there is large scale migration as people search for work.

    Bring the world in toto up to western middle class standards of living and I'd say the ecosystem, food and water supplies collapse.

    China is vacuuming up fish to feed its 1 billion people. Climate change is accelerating the tipping-crisis point.

    Puerto Rico is already a welfare state and is becoming unsustainable due to weather. The Bahamas are probably unsustainable as well.

  8. Top | #98
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    The UN says that 'food security' which had been globally rising is now declining due to climate change.

    The Univ Of Washington predicts the Columbia River will lower due to reduced snowpacks. The Columbia provides water for farming in Eastern Washington and Oregon.

    As to overpopulation we are already seeing the effects. The last wave of immigrants walking across Europe and the crisis at our southern border. Growing numbers of people who have no hope and no future.

    In Africa there is large scale migration as people search for work.

    Bring the world in toto up to western middle class standards of living and I'd say the ecosystem, food and water supplies collapse.

    China is vacuuming up fish to feed its 1 billion people. Climate change is accelerating the tipping-crisis point.

    Puerto Rico is already a welfare state and is becoming unsustainable due to weather. The Bahamas are probably unsustainable as well.
    That's how it looks.

  9. Top | #99
    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Wait. When industry began searching for places to cut costs they ultimately went to Bangladesh. Bangladesh was made made so by repeated flooding by Typhoons. It was a failed state that became a haven for companies wanting cheap labor. Wallah. Bangladesh the economic miracle. I'm pretty sure that the Bahamas and Puerto Rico will recover when they are discovered as opportunities for companies to make money off cheap labor.

    Hey Ivanka. Look. Puerto Rico and the Bahamas are close to large markets and their labor is desperate enough to work for almost nothing. Certainly they are better than Bangladesh for your product manufacture. Just think three hats rather than just one. MAGA, Bahamans Are Prosperous Again (BAPA) and Puerto Rican Are Working Again (PRAWA).

    That's the ticket.

  10. Top | #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    The UN says that 'food security' which had been globally rising is now declining due to climate change.
    Yes, there are threats to food security due to climate change. If you want to learn more about it, here's detailed recent report: http://www.fao.org/3/a-i5188e.pdf That doesn't make it right to pretend that it's already declinign, and it doesn't make throwing about big numbers without telling that, big as they are, they're actually an improvement anything but misleading.


    The Univ Of Washington predicts the Columbia River will lower due to reduced snowpacks. The Columbia provides water for farming in Eastern Washington and Oregon.
    What percentage of the population of Washington and Oregon are farmers? What percent of the world's food supply is produced in Washington and Oregon?


    As to overpopulation we are already seeing the effects. The last wave of immigrants walking across Europe and the crisis at our southern border. Growing numbers of people who have no hope and no future.
    Growing numbers of people with no hope and no future are a sign of an unbalanced economy and high heredity of socio-economic status, not of overpopulation. Incidentally, the countries where most of the people at your southern borders are coming from all have total fertility rates between 2.0 and 2.5 (only Guatemala slightly higher at 2.9), all down from around 7.0 - 7.5 in the 1960s/70s


    In Africa there is large scale migration as people search for work.
    Again, that's indicative of economic factors. Specifically, of the large gaps in development between different African countries.


    Bring the world in toto up to western middle class standards of living and I'd say the ecosystem, food and water supplies collapse.
    Compared to previous decades and by many indicators, the world is at western middle class standards. Child mortality in Gabon or Ghana today is about what it was in France 1950.


    China is vacuuming up fish to feed its 1 billion people. Climate change is accelerating the tipping-crisis point.

    Puerto Rico is already a welfare state and is becoming unsustainable due to weather. The Bahamas are probably unsustainable as well.
    Puerto Rico may well be a welfare state and unsustainable, but it's one of the poorest possible examples as an argument for overpopulation: It has one of the world's lowest fertility rates at about 0.5 less per woman than the mainland US, and a population that has been declining every year since 2001. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...of_Puerto_Rico
    Last edited by Jokodo; 09-12-2019 at 09:27 AM.

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