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Thread: Obama - As the world burns, the President fiddles.

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    Veteran Member maxparrish's Avatar
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    Obama - As the world burns, the President fiddles.

    Presidents often leave a specific imprint on foreign policy - the Truman Doctrine, Nixon Doctrine, Good Neighbor Policy, and the New World Order among them. Of recent, critics and more than a few supporters, have been increasingly distressed that Obama's doctrine seems to be that of a 'no world order'; a policy that is incoherent, capricious, and inexplicably indifferent to events beyond American borders. However, what critics think of as indifference or boredom is actually one of three underpinnings of an evolving Obama Doctrine of left wing isolationism.

    Isolationism has different motivations. Right-wing isolationism believes that American participation in the international community exposes the Republic to being tainted by venal foreign ideologies and interests. Obama, a left wing isolationist, believes that the rest of the world has been victimized by American pursuit of its own interests. Both brands of isolationism seek a national withdrawal from foreign entanglements and leadership, but for different reasons; the first to protect America from the world, the second to protect the world from America.

    If the benign neglect of isolationism is the Obama Doctrine's first underpinning, the second underpinning is that whatever actions are taken in the international arena must be hostile or indifferent to American interests. In fact the very presence of self-interest, in Obama's eyes, discredits and stains any American effort. And while humanitarian intervention does justify intervention, Obama is less willing to use American power in its defense.

    And finally there is Obama's peculiar left wing passive-aggressive hostility to American allies, precisely because they supported American interests - in other words, on some level Obama is actually an enemy of his own country.

    Consider his pattern:

    He "lead from the back" in Libya, ostensibly for (dubious) humanitarian concerns but also because Qaddafi was, if not an ally, at least no longer an enemy of the US who complied with nuclear disarmament. Naturally, Obama thought it appropriate to get rid of one of the few Axis of Evil states that complied with US demands. Qaddafi's sin? Helping American interests. Result? Libya is a violent warring mess.

    He pushed an overt American ally, Mubarak's Egypt, toward's the arms of the Muslim Brotherhood (not unlike Kennedy's blunder in giving to Okay to get rid of Diem). Egypt's sin? It was not a liberal democracy and was a close ally. Naturally, Mubarak had to go. The result? A near disaster with the installation of fanatical Islamists hostile to the US, only to be avoided by a recent military coup.

    In Syria, an actual enemy of the United States, he dodged any intervention - especially critical in the early stages when their were potential democratic liberal forces to support. Of course, given that Syria was an enemy of Israel and the US, it is not surprising that he did not wish to intervene, even for far more compelling "humanitarian" reasons (far more have died in Syria than in Libya).

    In Israel's Gaza war, we had the spectacle of the Arab States and Israel agreeing on a ceasefire plan, and Obamas Secretary of State John Kerry flying off to Paris to work with HAMAS lawyers on a joint HAMAS-US ceasefire proposal, undermining our relationships with BOTH Israel and friendly Arab States (that will teach em). Ironically, the current cease fire is nearly identical to the original Egyptian plan.

    Most recently, ISIS has been advancing for two months. Sweeping Iraq cities, taking Mosul and the Mosul Dam. Now ISIS is moving on Lebanon, and have taken four Kurd cities and threatening the Kurd capital Erbil. While both Iraq and the Kurds have been begging for aid for two months, Obama has been nearly deaf. When not golfing and fund raising, he has spent most of this time with obsessive fetish over the composition of Iraqi government, rather than concerning himself with Kurds (a long-time ally and once under US protection) and real American interests in keeping Iraq from falling to terrorists.

    His 'barely minimal' aid, announced tonight, is as parsimonious as it is indifferent - some air drops to 40,000 Christian refugees in a mountain enclave, and a willingness to use some air power on behalf of US personnel in Erbil.

    Finally we have the Ukraine. Russia is rebuilding the former Soviet Empire, while Obama lectures Putin that "you are not on the side of history". He has refused to ship military aide to the Ukraine, and we await the Ukraine's fall to Russian forces. This is, of course, not in US interests to see the Ukraine fall so Obama's has far less reason to oppose Russian designs.

    At this point, in the international arena, Obama is America's worst enemy.



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    Contributor barbos's Avatar
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    You almost had me until you mentioned Ukraine.

    Did you know that before Ukraine US had another "Lets piss off Russia" project called Georgia?
    McCain&Saakashvili and all that shit, remember that?
    Here is an update for you, Saakashvili is under criminal investigation in Georgia for the whole set of actual misdeeds and has not been in Georgia since he had left the office. He is widely hated in Georgia for starting 2008 War with South Ossetia and widely disliked for pissing off Russia.
    Funny thing is, new people in power are not that pro-russian, they still want into NATO and EU. But they are not rabid assholes like Saakashvili and new government in Ukraine.
    So chances are, you will have another professor with a last name Poroshenko in the future who does not want to visit Ukraine.

    Obama has been hugely underwhelming on international arena to say the least, but not for the reasons you mentioned.
    Last edited by barbos; 08-08-2014 at 09:39 AM.

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    None of this has much to do with the fact that Obama is president.

    None of Obama's opponents have offered any advice beyond "bomb them".

    The world is a chaotic place. To blame that on Obama is laughable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    None of this has much to do with the fact that Obama is president.

    None of Obama's opponents have offered any advice beyond "bomb them".

    The world is a chaotic place. To blame that on Obama is laughable.
    It's almost like you are suggesting there are things the government can't or shouldn't do...

    When did you start channeling Ron Paul?

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    Contributor Nice Squirrel's Avatar
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    I agree with Max, Obama does nothing when he should be doing nothing and we should get drawn into wars there is no way to win because leftist Muslim terrorist Benghazi birth certificate tyrant umbrella.

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    Good one Nice Squirrel. Personally I think we should have stayed out of Iraq in the first place. As to the current problems, let the Iraqis or the Arab League deal with it.

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    Oh goody... right-wing contemporary revisionist history.
    Quote Originally Posted by maxparrish View Post
    He pushed an overt American ally, Mubarak's Egypt, toward's the arms of the Muslim Brotherhood (not unlike Kennedy's blunder in giving to Okay to get rid of Diem).
    Is that how you remember it? Because I remember a US that was rather quiet on the whole issue for quite a while. It wasn't until there were the larger crackdowns on the protest that Sec of State Clinton started speaking about Mubarak. The US clearly didn't want Mubarak to leave power.
    In Syria, an actual enemy of the United States, he dodged any intervention - especially critical in the early stages when their were potential democratic liberal forces to support.
    This is the same Syria that the US (W Admin) teamed with for terror suspect renditions?
    Of course, given that Syria was an enemy of Israel and the US, it is not surprising that he did not wish to intervene, even for far more compelling "humanitarian" reasons (far more have died in Syria than in Libya).
    And replace Bashir with who exactly? One of the larger problems with Syria was exactly what we are seeing now. Bashir is still in charge, yet he has lost portions of the nation. You think Obama going in to support loosely affiliated nationalist groups would have led to ISIS not forming, overwhelming a fledgling democracy in Syria and taking over? You'd just be whining that Obama got us involved in yet another failed Middle East occupation.

    In Israel's Gaza war, we had the spectacle of the Arab States and Israel agreeing on a ceasefire plan, and Obamas Secretary of State John Kerry flying off to Paris to work with HAMAS lawyers on a joint HAMAS-US ceasefire proposal, undermining our relationships with BOTH Israel and friendly Arab States (that will teach em). Ironically, the current cease fire is nearly identical to the original Egyptian plan.
    So when we get involved, Obama is wrong. When we don't get involved, Obama is wrong.

    Most recently, ISIS has been advancing for two months.
    You misspelled 24 to 26 months.
    Sweeping Iraq cities, taking Mosul and the Mosul Dam. Now ISIS is moving on Lebanon, and have taken four Kurd cities and threatening the Kurd capital Erbil.
    ISIS has typically only taken Sunni controlled areas with little resistance.
    While both Iraq and the Kurds have been begging for aid for two months, Obama has been nearly deaf. When not golfing and fund raising, he has spent most of this time with obsessive fetish over the composition of Iraqi government,
    How the Shia government has been dealing with Sunnis is a major reason why Sunnis are letting ISIS waltz into their cities. You are aware of this, right?
    ...rather than concerning himself with Kurds (a long-time ally and once under US protection) and real American interests in keeping Iraq from falling to terrorists.
    Iraq hasn't fallen to terrorists. As you can tell with oil prices, there is no fear of Iraq falling to the terrorists. Obama has been doing this odd thing called "thinking" before acting. Just dropping bombs and killing Iraqi civilians isn't going to help win the peace back in Iraq.

    Finally we have the Ukraine. Russia is rebuilding the former Soviet Empire, while Obama lectures Putin that "you are not on the side of history". He has refused to ship military aide to the Ukraine, and we await the Ukraine's fall to Russian forces. This is, of course, not in US interests to see the Ukraine fall so Obama's has far less reason to oppose Russian designs.
    What do you want Obama to do? They have launched sanctions over Russian involvement. Are we supposed to start dropping bombs in Russia?

    At this point, in the international arena, Obama is America's worst enemy.
    Actually 8 years of shit foreign diplomacy and policy under W has hamstrung the Obama Administration. Yeah, I know, "Blame Bush", but W's decisions have had an unbelievably huge impact on global politics and has greatly tarnished America's image and diplomatic strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    None of this has much to do with the fact that Obama is president.

    None of Obama's opponents have offered any advice beyond "bomb them".

    The world is a chaotic place. To blame that on Obama is laughable.
    Exactly.

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    I prefer fiddling to starting World War III.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dismal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by untermensche View Post
    None of this has much to do with the fact that Obama is president.

    None of Obama's opponents have offered any advice beyond "bomb them".

    The world is a chaotic place. To blame that on Obama is laughable.
    It's almost like you are suggesting there are things the government can't or shouldn't do...

    When did you start channeling Ron Paul?
    That isn't Ron Paul who would say that, its everyone else (except for pseudo-libertarians as moronic and simple-minded as Ron Paul).
    The rest of us don't think and have never said that the government can and should do everything about everything.
    What Ron Paul and his followers who don't grasp what is neccessary for this thing we call "civilization" to exist would say is that "There is virtually nothing that the government can or should do about anything. The rich and powerful should be free to harm people for profits by whatever means they can short of shooting people in the streets, oh wait, even that is fine so long as they feel threatened by a black person."

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