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Thread: What if Trump Refuses to Concede in 2020?

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    What if Trump Refuses to Concede in 2020?

    In 2016, Trump threatened not to concede if he lost to HRC. But of course it was an empty threat because he had no power. Obama controlled the executive branch and would have simply handed over to HRC in January regardless. But now he’s saying the same thing again, but this time he controls the machinery of power. The heads of the Departments are his appointees, like Barr at Justice, and Esper at DoD. Who would enforce the election results? I suspect the courts would punt.

    Would mass protests do the trick? Bureaucratic insurrection? Military refusing to obey his orders? What happens exactly?

    SLD

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    In 2016, Trump threatened not to concede if he lost to HRC. But of course it was an empty threat because he had no power. Obama controlled the executive branch and would have simply handed over to HRC in January regardless. But now he’s saying the same thing again, but this time he controls the machinery of power. The heads of the Departments are his appointees, like Barr at Justice, and Esper at DoD. Who would enforce the election results? I suspect the courts would punt.

    Would mass protests do the trick? Bureaucratic insurrection? Military refusing to obey his orders? What happens exactly?

    SLD
    If the election results are clear and Trump loses, I seriously doubt the courts would back him up. I seriously doubt the Senate or the House (regardless who is in the majority) would back him. And, I doubt the military or the Secret Service would obey him since he no longer would the legitimate Commander in Chief.

    If he would no leave the White House, I suppose the duly elected POTUS would have him evicted.

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    In 2016, Trump threatened not to concede if he lost to HRC. But of course it was an empty threat because he had no power. Obama controlled the executive branch and would have simply handed over to HRC in January regardless. But now he’s saying the same thing again, but this time he controls the machinery of power. The heads of the Departments are his appointees, like Barr at Justice, and Esper at DoD. Who would enforce the election results? I suspect the courts would punt.

    Would mass protests do the trick? Bureaucratic insurrection? Military refusing to obey his orders? What happens exactly?

    SLD
    He's asked to leave, and arrested if he doesn't. He has no authority, and more importantly, no protection from legal action, without a legal election. Why on earth do you think the courts would punt? They're conservatives, not insurrectionists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    In 2016, Trump threatened not to concede if he lost to HRC. But of course it was an empty threat because he had no power. Obama controlled the executive branch and would have simply handed over to HRC in January regardless. But now he’s saying the same thing again, but this time he controls the machinery of power. The heads of the Departments are his appointees, like Barr at Justice, and Esper at DoD. Who would enforce the election results? I suspect the courts would punt.

    Would mass protests do the trick? Bureaucratic insurrection? Military refusing to obey his orders? What happens exactly?

    SLD
    If the election results are clear and Trump loses, I seriously doubt the courts would back him up. I seriously doubt the Senate or the House (regardless who is in the majority) would back him. And, I doubt the military or the Secret Service would obey him since he no longer would the legitimate Commander in Chief.

    If he would no leave the White House, I suppose the duly elected POTUS would have him evicted.
    I don’t think it would be that simple. The electoral college would technically elect the President, but Congress counts the votes. If Trump is saying it was all the result of foreign interference and filing legal challenges and the rank and file republicans refusing to accept the defeat, the Senate, controlled by McConnell, could refuse to ratify the results. DOJ is controlled by Barr, and he orders all of his officials to stand down until the Senate ratifies the results. So no US Marshall is going to arrest or evict the President. Same with Esper at DoD. The Courts would say they can’t do anything until the Senate acts Orr some other bullshit dodge to avoid making a tough decision. But McConnell says we have to get to the bottom of this before anyone can certify the results. Or he agrees that it’s the result of massive voter fraud, or foreign interference. It will only take four years to get to the bottom of this. After which Ivanka Trump gets elected.

    SLD

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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Meh. All of those people still want some sort of job after the dust settles.
    They side with Trump now to get max profit and minimum oversight from the dotard, but i don't think anyone in actual power wants to go down in flames with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Meh. All of those people still want some sort of job after the dust settles.
    They side with Trump now to get max profit and minimum oversight from the dotard, but i don't think anyone in actual power wants to go down in flames with him.
    I hope you’re right. Our Democratic institutions are dependent on people upholding them. Every member of Congress, every State representative, every military officer, every federal official, every judge, takes an oath to the Constitution. If they refuse en masse to uphold that oath we're fucked.

    SLD

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post
    In 2016, Trump threatened not to concede if he lost to HRC. But of course it was an empty threat because he had no power. Obama controlled the executive branch and would have simply handed over to HRC in January regardless. But now he’s saying the same thing again, but this time he controls the machinery of power. The heads of the Departments are his appointees, like Barr at Justice, and Esper at DoD. Who would enforce the election results? I suspect the courts would punt.

    Would mass protests do the trick? Bureaucratic insurrection? Military refusing to obey his orders? What happens exactly?

    SLD
    If the election results are clear and Trump loses, I seriously doubt the courts would back him up. I seriously doubt the Senate or the House (regardless who is in the majority) would back him. And, I doubt the military or the Secret Service would obey him since he no longer would the legitimate Commander in Chief.

    If he would no leave the White House, I suppose the duly elected POTUS would have him evicted.
    I don’t think it would be that simple. The electoral college would technically elect the President, but Congress counts the votes. If Trump is saying it was all the result of foreign interference and filing legal challenges and the rank and file republicans refusing to accept the defeat, the Senate, controlled by McConnell, could refuse to ratify the results. DOJ is controlled by Barr, and he orders all of his officials to stand down until the Senate ratifies the results. So no US Marshall is going to arrest or evict the President. Same with Esper at DoD. The Courts would say they can’t do anything until the Senate acts Orr some other bullshit dodge to avoid making a tough decision. But McConnell says we have to get to the bottom of this before anyone can certify the results. Or he agrees that it’s the result of massive voter fraud, or foreign interference. It will only take four years to get to the bottom of this. After which Ivanka Trump gets elected.

    SLD
    I think none of those people have big enough balls to do as you fear.

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    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SLD View Post

    I don’t think it would be that simple. The electoral college would technically elect the President, but Congress counts the votes. If Trump is saying it was all the result of foreign interference and filing legal challenges and the rank and file republicans refusing to accept the defeat, the Senate, controlled by McConnell, could refuse to ratify the results. DOJ is controlled by Barr, and he orders all of his officials to stand down until the Senate ratifies the results. So no US Marshall is going to arrest or evict the President. Same with Esper at DoD. The Courts would say they can’t do anything until the Senate acts Orr some other bullshit dodge to avoid making a tough decision. But McConnell says we have to get to the bottom of this before anyone can certify the results. Or he agrees that it’s the result of massive voter fraud, or foreign interference. It will only take four years to get to the bottom of this. After which Ivanka Trump gets elected.

    SLD
    I think none of those people have big enough balls to do as you fear.
    Based on my experience with military and bureaucracy, the biggest problem will be shrugging.
    People will know it is wrong, but not feel that it is their job to fix it, not their place to force someone else to do his job.
    They won't actively break the law for Trump's tantrum, but large numbers of them will wait for someone else to say, NO! We are not getting on board thus crazy train. Inertia...

    Luckily, since we're already discussing this possibility, there are people preparing to be that voice of oh-fucks-to-that. Whoever runs against him will probably already have a game plan, which goes into effect the day after the election, for a hostile transition.

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    Veteran Member Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    The Secret Service would cut off the supply of McDonalds cheese burgers to the White House. He'd last two days at best.
    Cheerful Charlie

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    Contributor barbos's Avatar
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    If People around presidents (in general) had balls to pull such thing off they would not had allowed Trump to become a president in the first place.
    Trump has no loyal supporters in the political class.

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