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Thread: Thoughts about TFT, and posting manners

  1. Top | #11
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    Not much bothers me.

    I imagine we all of us regulars piss off each other from time to time for one thing or another. Live and let live is a good approach.

  2. Top | #12
    My Brane Hertz spikepipsqueak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Not much bothers me.

    I imagine we all of us regulars piss off each other from time to time for one thing or another. Live and let live is a good approach.
    QFT

    I like the anecdotes. In the informal end of the board they are what it's all about, to an extent.

    In the "argument" end of the board, a personal story can provide a good framework for examining the point at issue, helping to tease out and illustrate aspects that aren't immediately obvious in a .theoretical perspective.

    Getting to know some of someone's back story is what gives us the forbearance to know when someone's joking, gently ribbing, or if they are genuinely trying to hurt with a comment.

    Knowing someone a bit, we can start to give each other the latitude we give people in real life.
    My Brane Hertz

  3. Top | #13
    Veteran Member Brian63's Avatar
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    Anecdotes are alright moreso when they come from a variety of individuals. Some specific individuals though seem to take a lot of threads as opportunities to repeatedly talk about themselves.

    For a little (anecdotal) context:
    A person in my household regularly talks about herself. She tells very long, very drawn-out, detailed, boring, lengthy, and tiring stories about herself, over and over again to whatever audience is in front of her. So the same person may hear her tell the same 10-minutes of exhausting uninterrupted anecdotes again and again, if they are unlucky enough to get stuck in the same room with her each time.

    Also, I have noticed on dating websites how disappointing it is to see sooooooo many women (I do not know about men's profiles) incessantly talk about themselves, what they like, what they want. To some extent that is expected, since it is a personal profile. On the other hand, many take it way too far. They only talk about what they want in a partner, they say nothing about what they want to offer a partner. It becomes abundantly clear that what their imagined dream relationship is really not about a mutual romantic partnership with give-and-take. Instead, it really would come down to pleasing her. It is all about her.

    I see the same behavior and same traits here sometimes. People take so many opportunities to talk about themselves, in too great a detail, even if a more generous and productive discussion could be had by talking about others around them, asking them about their own experiences and their own thoughts and their own life. We should not try and steer conversations towards being about ourselves. Really good conversationalists are often ones who are really good at talking about the people around them, rather than just talking about themselves all the time.

  4. Top | #14
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    I'm probably guilty of all of the things you don't like.

    Speaking for myself, if I offer up details about anything in my real life, I'm trying to offer some context or, sometimes a bit of sympathy that points out a similar experience, in order to try to establish some sense of camaraderie and connection. Otherwise, I'm offering up details to try to find kindred spirits or folks who have perhaps gone through something similar or who might have insight or opinions. To me, that seems better manners than probing others for details they might understandably be reluctant to share with strangers on the internet.

  5. Top | #15
    Veteran Member Brian63's Avatar
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    Yeah, there is an important difference between telling your own story for the benefit of another person who may be reluctant or afraid of telling their own similar story. In those cases I completely am in support of telling personal anecdotes. Those are the "you are not alone" type stories and are more altruistic in nature.

    Then there are also the cases where people incessantly talk about themselves not for the benefit of the listener but just to vent and rant themselves. Or they think their own stories are super-duper interesting and everyone else in the same room wants to hear the 10-minute uninterrupted, exhaustively-detailed monologue versions of them. It is telling stories for their own personal benefit rather than the benefit of others, even to the detriment of others who are bound by etiquette to listen to it and not doze off.

  6. Top | #16
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    If you do not like the way someone always pos5s use the ignore function. I have two people on ignore who always descend into personal bickering.

    I can have some fun with the thread.

    Get your own shit together first.
    A person in a glass house should not throw stones.
    Ye whose slate is clean cast the first stone.

    If someone wants to blow their own horn who cares? I do not see how anyone can get upset on a largely anonymous forum.

    Tolerance begets mutually assured survival. I was on the original forum and the incarnations. The intent was always freedom to speak freely. If you make a claim and are taken to task it js your problem.

    Trying to impose any form other than the obvious like chronic personal attack and hate speech is not what the forum is about. Theist are welcome with their monotone rhetoric.

    Way back someone wanted to be able to start a thread and control who had access. That went nowhere.
    To me the real value of the forum is that anyone regardless of background can post and explore with out fear of being summarily ostracized or bullied.

    Talk about whatever you like. Some people due start threads to get up on a platform and blow their own horn. Part of the forum.

    The forum as it is now is pretty tame. 7 or 8 years ago there was a lot of moderation. A lot of chronic bickering.

  7. Top | #17
    Veteran Member Brian63's Avatar
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    Going to tackle just one of these here.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    If someone wants to blow their own horn who cares?
    Some of us do, including those who like discussions less to be about blowing our own horns and more about constructive discussion. In recent months I have started viewing some atheist-oriented podcasts and they are vastly different than what is found here. There the hosts get into much higher quality discussions, are polite and kind to their guests (if the guests are polite and kind themselves), each allows the other opportunities to present their views and it makes for much more interesting discussion. When they tell stories, they are usually relevant and not just ranting or blowing horns. They will tell them in a response to a caller who is afraid and feeling like they are alone, so that they become aware that they are not. You learn about the world and how it functions, you do not just hear a bunch of people self-aggrandizing.

    I remember some of the original IIDB from way back around 2000, and there was a lot of intelligent and thoughtful discussion of religious and secular issues. It was not as much people blowing their own horns for no reason. There were plenty of debates and learning about the various apologetic arguments for religion. There was a Deconversion Testimony thread which was very active and people regularly contributed to it (personal anecdotes would be great there). People told stories in the Secular Lifestyle forum about their difficulties and challenges with living as a secular person in a religious environment. There was even a "Positive Atheism and Secular Activism" forum where people could learn how to find and organize with other local groups and become more activist-oriented. That idea had never crossed my mind before, that someone can actually be active for atheism. We are supposed to merely play defense all the time, right? Wait until our rights are infringed upon, and only then say or do anything. Do not be more proactive against the underlying threats that religions pose though. Plenty of organizations still exist that perform such functions to help various secularists, but this forum really has no role or association with them. We are currently a moreso collection of posters, a lot of them with huge aggressions and egos and who like to troll each other on a lot of issues, but who happen to have some similar views on the one matter of religion, where less attention is paid. If that is all this forum is going to be, it is not going to be very useful or intriguing to members.

  8. Top | #18
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    Well Brian, not to belabor the point but whyshould anyone care what youm think?

    I have several people on ignore. If somebody bothers you do not participate in their threads, respond to posts, and use the ignore function. The same general response to this way back in forum history. If you thnk somebody violates TOU make a complaint.

    And of course if you want to control form am content you are free to start your own forum or go elsewhere.

    And there are people who love to complain about anything. I am no psychologist but it seems like those kinds of poster are looking for self esteem and personal validation at the expense of others. Neither here for there for me, it does not violate TOU. That is what in part the lounge and miscellaneous is for.

    And from here we descend into the usual tit for tat personal commentary? It all makes sense when you grasp there are people here who may not like the way you yourself post.

  9. Top | #19
    Veteran Member Brian63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Well Brian, not to belabor the point but whyshould anyone care what youm think?
    Because maybe they are valid concerns and helpful suggestions? If you disagree, you are welcome to simply ignore this thread or me generally, as you point out. I never understood the "why should anyone care about your opinion?" question. Either the opinion has merit or it does not, independently of the person who holds it. Pointing out that it comes from a particular person amounts to an ad hominem fallacy, as if that by itself discredits the opinion in some way.

  10. Top | #20
    Contributor Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruth Harris View Post
    I am in complete agreement with Brian63. I am here to learn and discuss, not read hit and run insults.

    When I answer a post in quote by quote format, it is only to be sure that the original poster is aware of what I am specifically discussing. I do try to not make a habit of doing that as I know it makes for a lengthy post that can be tedious to read, but in some cases it is necessary.

    I don't normally interact with posts which are only a link to another website. If the original poster does not have anything to say about it, why should I care enough to discuss it?

    I enjoy reading posts by members who offer substantive dialogue on the chosen subject and are courteous even when they don't agree with me. I always try to reply in kind. If someone starts insulting me then I try to just walk away from interacting with them; I will admit I am not always successful doing that, but I do try.

    And yes, I have seen forum usage (here and elsewhere) fall off considerably over the years I have participated in them. I think this is very sad; the world seems to be losing the desire and/or ability to have an actual conversation with more than just sound bite sized chunks.

    My participation here is erratic as my real life interferes with what I would actually like to be doing

    Ruth
    There are some blogs that are doing well. But those that do well tend to be narrowly focused. John Loftus' blog "Christianity Debunked". Bob Seidenstiker's "Cross Examined".
    Cheerful Charlie

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