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Thread: Sin is a figment of peoples imagination

  1. Top | #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    Sin is a figment of peoples imagination. Yet some people believe that it is real.
    Well, money is a figment of peoples' imagination, too. We just tend to find it a useful fiction so enough of us agree to it.
    'Sin' being a crime against god, it's only useful among those who agree that there is a god.
    If these people honestly believe that what they are saying is true then don't you have to respect that?
    I hear people saying, some people are saying, I mean, lots of people are saying this thing. I don't know if I believe it, I don't know if I have to believe it.
    But you know, people have said it, and people have insisted on saying it, insisted that it's true, it's whatever. It's their truth. That doesn't make it the big truth. People can say, people are saying that Trump is chosen by God to run this nation, people can say all kinds of shit, you know? Absolute shit, and I don't feel any great need to respect this shit just because they said it, or are saying it, and if they truly feel that what they believe is what they say, that really doesn't make it any less shit, you know?
    They can believe shit and they can say shit and we have free speech so I kinda, I dunno, I gotta respect their right to say shit, but I dunno why, you know, what it would be that makes me respect the shit they're saying, just because they went to the effort to say it.
    What do you say to these delusional people?
    Depends on what they say and how they expect me to react. 'Shut up' can work, or 'fuck off.'

  2. Top | #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    Sin is a figment of peoples imagination. Yet some people believe that it is real.

    If these people honestly believe that what they are saying is true then don't you have to respect that?

    What do you say to these delusional people?

    I guess start arguing about the existence of God since the word has no use outside that context.

    "Sin" is a theist word for "defiance of God". https://www.gotquestions.org/definition-sin.html
    So you don't feel obligated to respect their delusion?
    No I don't respect delusions. If you're bringing up "respect" as a matter of "do you argue with them?" then that depends on my mood and the social context.

  3. Top | #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Well, money is a figment of peoples' imagination, too. We just tend to find it a useful fiction so enough of us agree to it.
    'Sin' being a crime against god, it's only useful among those who agree that there is a god.
    I hear people saying, some people are saying, I mean, lots of people are saying this thing. I don't know if I believe it, I don't know if I have to believe it.
    But you know, people have said it, and people have insisted on saying it, insisted that it's true, it's whatever. It's their truth. That doesn't make it the big truth. People can say, people are saying that Trump is chosen by God to run this nation, people can say all kinds of shit, you know? Absolute shit, and I don't feel any great need to respect this shit just because they said it, or are saying it, and if they truly feel that what they believe is what they say, that really doesn't make it any less shit, you know?
    They can believe shit and they can say shit and we have free speech so I kinda, I dunno, I gotta respect their right to say shit, but I dunno why, you know, what it would be that makes me respect the shit they're saying, just because they went to the effort to say it.
    What do you say to these delusional people?
    Depends on what they say and how they expect me to react. 'Shut up' can work, or 'fuck off.'
    I am not sure I understand everything you just said but you seem to be implying that everything that is nonmaterial is imaginary. I dont think I agree with that. Love is a real thing. A square circle is imaginary. A circle is a real thing even though it is just an idea.
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  4. Top | #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    There is no "sin". There is no "immoral". There is no "moral".

    There is only civilized and uncivilized behavior.
    So, how is (I'm)moral a delusion while (in)civilized is a fact?

    Both are inventions of man that seek to codify behavior to maximize the acceptable population density. If we didn't have morals, no one could ever learn to play the bagpipes because the neighbors would harvest his organs for long-haggis.
    Practicing your bagpipe in a crowded space would be uncivilized behavior...

  5. Top | #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    You seem to be implying that everything that is nonmaterial is imaginary.
    What would you use as a distinction between 'real nonmaterial' things and 'imaginary nonmaterial' things?
    A square circle is imaginary. A circle is a real thing even though it is just an idea.
    And as long as it remains 'just an idea,' it's imaginary.
    We can list the rules that create and/or govern it, such as to make the imaginary circle different from an imaginary square, but it's still pretty imaginary.

  6. Top | #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    There is no "sin". There is no "immoral". There is no "moral".

    There is only civilized and uncivilized behavior.
    So, how is (I'm)moral a delusion while (in)civilized is a fact?

    Both are inventions of man that seek to codify behavior to maximize the acceptable population density. If we didn't have morals, no one could ever learn to play the bagpipes because the neighbors would harvest his organs for long-haggis.
    Practicing your bagpipe in a crowded space would be uncivilized behavior...
    An objective person is a person who understands that the universe does not revolve around their ego.

    A civilized society is a society whose laws do not revolve around any one person or any one group of people.
    The more a society treats everyone as equals the more civilized it is.

    Equal rights. Equal protection. Equal pay for equal work. Equal punishment for equal crimes.

    But treating everyone as equals is not the same thing as treating everyone exactly the same. If we treated everyone the way that extroverts want to be treated then people who are introverted would suffer. Treating everyone as if they were exactly the same is pseudo-civilization.
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  7. Top | #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post

    So you don't feel obligated to respect their delusion?
    No I don't respect delusions. If you're bringing up "respect" as a matter of "do you argue with them?" then that depends on my mood and the social context.
    Patton Oswalt has a great bit on the big floating anus.

    Imagine someone is a good person because they think that there is a big giant anus floating invisibly over his head, and they believe that if they misbehave, the anus will suck them up where the shitweasels will get him.

    Okay, fine. We appreciate that you have this belief, and we appreciate that this belief makes you a better person. And, you know, we respect your right to tell anyone who will listen about the big floating invisible anus ... But, no, we do not respect the big floating invisible anus NOR do we respect the belief in the big floating invisible anus. Nope. Nuh-uh. We just think you're crazy. NICE, but crazy.

    And don't get us started on the shit weasels.

  8. Top | #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith&Co. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    You seem to be implying that everything that is nonmaterial is imaginary.
    What would you use as a distinction between 'real nonmaterial' things and 'imaginary nonmaterial' things?
    A square circle is imaginary. A circle is a real thing even though it is just an idea.
    And as long as it remains 'just an idea,' it's imaginary.
    We can list the rules that create and/or govern it, such as to make the imaginary circle different from an imaginary square, but it's still pretty imaginary.
    No. As long as it remains 'just an idea' it is nonmaterial. Love is a real thing even though it is nonmaterial. Reality is why doesn't go away when you're not looking at it . Love doesn't go away when you're not looking at it
    Teachers = Trees of knowledge
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  9. Top | #19
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    Sin is a form of black and white all or nothing thinking. Sin is thought of as all-bad. Infinitely bad. In reality nothing is infinitely bad.

    Sin is a square circle. It is purely imaginary. It cannot exist. It is irrational and self contradictory.
    Teachers = Trees of knowledge
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  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by no-one-particular View Post
    An objective person is a person who understands that the universe does not revolve around their ego.
    Okay. Unless, of course, the person is a brain in a jar, then this objective person is actually delusional...
    A civilized society is a society whose laws do not revolve around any one person or any one group of people.
    How are you defining 'civilized' in this instance? And how are you defining 'group?'
    The more a society treats everyone as equals the more civilized it is.
    This really requires a definition of 'civilized.'
    But treating everyone as equals is not the same thing as treating everyone exactly the same. If we treated everyone the way that extroverts want to be treated then people who are introverted would suffer. Treating everyone as if they were exactly the same is pseudo-civilization.
    Okay, now how about a completely different question: So, how is (im)moral a delusion while (un)civilized is a fact?

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