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Thread: Exposing Atheistic Myths

  1. Top | #451
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve_bank View Post
    Listened to part of the 50 Club today. Talked about a woman who is battling evil commands sent to her mind by evil spirits.
    Was that Paula? Sounds like Paula.
    Hope she wins. She's the only one with a password for the travel claim software.

  2. Top | #452
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post

    No. It's the other way around.
    If God could NOT do something new and improved then you might say He was not omnipotent.

    But to meet the definition of MGB all He has to do is bake a better cake than any other being can.
    I was referring to omniscience, which by definition means perfect and absolute knowledge of all things knowable. Omnipotence acts upon perfect knowledge of all things knowable without the need to practice and perfect what was always known. Practice implies imperfect understanding.
    I hold that omniscience is a subset of omnipotence.
    The ability of God to know whatever He wants whenever He wants - not the compulsion to know all things at all times.
    Does that mean that God deliberately chooses ignorance?

    Deliberately creating a flawed world in order to practice getting it right....getting it right being something that could have been done the first time had ignorance not been chosen?

  3. Top | #453
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Not really. Only a maximally great, omniscient, omnipotent Being could continuously improve on their own handiwork.

    A hypothetical statement of regret by God doesn't imply that God has exhausted the limit of His abilities
    That's true, as long as his abilities are finite.
    - which are infinite.
    Oh.

    Shit.

    I guess your ability to grasp infinity is a weak as your ability to grasp basic probability.

  4. Top | #454
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    But that's NOT the anecdote.
    There is not an equal chance that the widget at the bottom of the stack and the one at the top of the stack will be picked first.
    Their placement is random. So that doesn't affect the probability that the defective one is in the chosen position.

  5. Top | #455
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Nobody is denying that if 40 objects are placed in a circle and you blindfold someone in the center of the circle, spin them around three times and then ask them to point in any direction THEN there is an equal 1 in 40 chance that they might pick the defective one first.
    Nobody cares. You are fundamentally, mathematically, and completely wrong on this question.

  6. Top | #456
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skepticalbip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    ...but that's NOT the anecdote.

    Bayes' Theorem
    Background information.
    What are the chances he will pick the widget closets to the top - easiest to reach.
    And the odds are 1 in 40 of the defective widget being the easiest to reach... just as the odds are 1 in 40 of it being the hardest to reach, or in any of the other specific positions.
    That's a different anecdote. (Whether the wigdets are arranged at random.)
    IF they are arranged randomly and IF the blindfolded co-worker selects one completely at random,
    THEN all have an equal chance of being selected first.

    You and Treedbear must surely understand how easy it would be to rig the scenario such that the defective widget will almost certainly be picked 1st. And that's the reason why you have to avoid mocking your religious co-worker"s belief telling them it's only ever 1 in 40
    Sure, it could be rigged.

    But if it is, the odds are better than 40:1, and if it's not, they're exactly 40:1. In no scenario are the odds worse than 40:1, as you have been claiming.

  7. Top | #457
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    I'm not claiming that they are worse than 1 in 40.
    Obviously, there are no more than 40 picks before you've exhausted alll options.
    But that's not the anecdote.
    The co-worker isn't doing a blind random pick of one out of 40.
    They are picking the one closest at hand. Hence the widgets closest at hand have a better chance of being picked.
    AND we have no background information stating that the 40 widgets are randomly arranged.
    So it's not a simple 1 in 40 chance.

    If God wanted to send a miraculous sign to the co-worker by way of letting them pick the defective widget 1st go, then He could place the defective one at the top of the stack and closest within reach.

    Finding the defective widget 1st pick or last pick are not equally probable if you know additional background information.

  8. Top | #458
    Super Moderator Atheos's Avatar
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    This is inane. Unless there is "background information" that indicates any particular order in which the widgets are arranged they are to all intents and purposes random. Therefore any one selected, no matter what selection criteria is used, has exactly a 1 in 40 chance of being the defective one.

    If you have a standard deck of cards and do not have any information about what order they are in, the odds that the one on top is the Ace of Spades is exactly 1 in 52. It's the same principle. It doesn't matter how many times you shuffle the deck, cut the cards, etc., once you set the deck on the table and overturn the top card the odds are always going to be 1 in 52 that it's the Ace of Spades. There are certainly millions of upon millions of different arrangements the cards can be in at that point but the odds that the one on top is the Ace of Spades is still 1 in 52. Period.

  9. Top | #459
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Does that mean that God deliberately chooses ignorance?
    Deus Ex Machina refers to that part of a play where the writer is faced with a time limit and a huge amount of plot complications to resolve for the happy ending. One or another god descends from the rafters, waves his or her hands, and the story is resolved. Because gods can do that sort of shit.

    Not dissimilar to 'proof is left to the student,' where the proof of a math theorem is possible, but such a ball-busting bitch that the author doesn't feel like writing it, much less making sure it gets through the typesetters without a fault, and just waves a hand. Trust me, or do your own work, you faggots, alright? Alright. Next theorem.

    Perhaps another term might be Deus Ex Stragulum De Yankum? At the opportune moment, pull the rug out from under a superpowerful character's feet? The character is just too powerful, so the plot requires some change. Thor is off planet during Civil War; Hulk refuses to hulk-out and fight Thanos; God's omnipotence or omniscience or omnipresence is not OMNI but has necessary limitations to keep from overresolving a plot complication in a rational matter; The Watcher sees all, but is sworn not to interfere.

  10. Top | #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half-Life View Post
    Sure, science says the universe an earth are old. Does this mean they are right? Of course not. For example, when God made Adam and Eve, they looked about 25 years old but they were 0 seconds old. If a scientist came along to study Adam and Even, he would conclude that they have been around for 25 years, not 0 seconds.
    God created the woman well after he created the man, so their ages wouldn't have been the same (0 seconds).

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