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Thread: Exposing Atheistic Myths

  1. Top | #721
    Veteran Member James Brown's Avatar
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    Let's not forget that the Ark was absolutely unnecessary. Jehovah's stated purpose for the flood was to kill off sinful humanity. And he could have done that by inducing all sinful humans to have heart attacks, save perhaps Noah and his family.

    Problem solved. No need to build an ark to save a tiny sample of all the animal species. No need to somehow find a planet-circling body of water and remove most of it afterwards. And no need for apologists to invent implausible explanations how Jehovah levitated distant species across land and sea, put them into a year-long suspended animation while they were embryos, then levitated them back to their native habitats which somehow managed to survive massive devastation. No need for any of it.

    If you're going to defend the Noahic deluge by stubbornly insisting that a magic God can magic his way out of multiple problems, then you'll have to explain why this same magic God didn't just magic his way out of a single problem--destroying all humans.

  2. Top | #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post
    Let's not forget that the Ark was absolutely unnecessary. Jehovah's stated purpose for the flood was to kill off sinful humanity. And he could have done that by inducing all sinful humans to have heart attacks, save perhaps Noah and his family.
    I think the story was supposed to be symbolic of God being an asshole.

  3. Top | #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    I still want to know how Noah and his family got rid of all that animal shit! It's really difficult for me to understand how an intelligent person can believe some of these Biblical myths as literal truth. Yet, I've known intelligent people who do take all that stuff literally.
    ...
    I take the Flood account literally.

    Can you "literally" show me where in the "literal" text it says there was an insurmountable problem with animal dung?
    This is a good point. The narrative of the Flood does lack much in the way of any details. It must have been the boringest 300 days on a boat ever.

    Show me where exactly in the text it literally states (mathematically) the total number of animals.
    We do have animals today. We should be able to do a little math here.
    Does the text state that they were all ADULT animals?
    Nope. Just says 7 pair of the clean animals, 1 pair of the unclean. Which is kind of odd, because God didn't go into what a clean or unclean animal was yet. Nor does it explain how all of the animals in the world were collected. Nor did the story indicate any real specifications for the massive ark, just length, width, breadth, window at the top. It is almost as if all of these rather potentially important historic tidbits weren't included because it never happened. We've got more info about what was on Jonah's mind while inside a fish for three days, than information about being on a massive floating fortress with all of the remaining animals to exist... for hundreds of days.
    Does it say whether or not the any of the animals were in a state of hibernation? (A confined space. Deep inside the cold and dark hull of the Ark.)
    Where in the story does it say it was cold?

  4. Top | #724
    Formerly Joedad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by southernhybrid View Post
    I still want to know how Noah and his family got rid of all that animal shit! It's really difficult for me to understand how an intelligent person can believe some of these Biblical myths as literal truth. Yet, I've known intelligent people who do take all that stuff literally.
    ...
    I take the Flood account literally.

    Can you "literally" show me where in the "literal" text it says there was an insurmountable problem with animal dung?

    Show me where exactly in the text it literally states (mathematically) the total number of animals.
    Does the text state that they were all ADULT animals? Does it say whether or not the any of the animals were in a state of hibernation? (A confined space. Deep inside the cold and dark hull of the Ark.)
    When's the last time you saw Superman or a cartoon character have to take a dump?

  5. Top | #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post
    If you're going to defend the Noahic deluge by stubbornly insisting that a magic God can magic his way out of multiple problems, then you'll have to explain why this same magic God didn't just magic his way out of a single problem--destroying all humans.
    I don't think when the story was first invented it was taken - or meant to be taken - literally. People who took it literally were probably laughed out of the room same as today. Kids only believe kid stories literally until they're not kids anymore. it couldn't have been much different a few thousand years ago. Adults don't take kid stories literally when they first hear them.

    Our Lion doesn't take this stuff literally either.

  6. Top | #726
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    I wonder who had the job of shoveling shit.


    According to the Oxford bible commentary Job was likely part f a greeter set of teaching materials. Some books begin as Father to son or teacher to student.

    According to the commentary Job was probably allegory for Hebrew captivity and assimilation. A story for ccontemporay conversation among Hebrews. Like all cultural myths.

  7. Top | #727
    Contributor Cheerful Charlie's Avatar
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    Job is a book that deals with the subject of why bad things happen to good people. The problem of evil. The Oriental teller of Oriental tall tales that created this had no idea of how to resolve the problem. This teller of tall tales was not a sophisticated theologian. In the end he simply had God bully Job. We have no right to question God, no matter how bad things get. Divine command theory in all it's gauche glory. A lot of modern day theologians will tell you with a straight face that God is not a moral agent and owes us no moral obligations. But God is perfectly and essentially good! God is per Bible revelation, merciful, compassionate, just and fair. Today's Christian theologians tell us all will be corrected in heaven, after we die. But the ancient Hebrews had no life after death, no heaven, no hell. That was a later addition to theology of the time of Job. And thus is no solution for Job.
    Cheerful Charlie

  8. Top | #728
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Yeah, the animals were adults.
    Genesis 7;2
    Take with you seven [1] of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate
    ,

    Unless the animals mated in infancy, they were adulterated. But tgat's just a literal reading. I'm sure an inerrentist could reason away the actual words.

    Also, in 6:21, god dinae say 'don't worty about food, i'll hibernste them' or 'i'l drop manna' he said
    You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."
    Nothing about the animals requiring a different amount than the family who would be up for the yesr....

  9. Top | #729
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    No, no, no.
    You don't get to argue from silence unless you afford me the same latitude.
    It doesn't say the animals were NOT hibernating.
    It doesn't say fully grown ADULT animals.

    Now, since you obviously enjoy bible study, the exegesis does not imply age.
    It implies gender. Male/Female.
    zâkâr and un’ḳêbah

  10. Top | #730
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    The story doesn't work for numerous reasons. It hardly matters whether the animals were supposed to be adults or juveniles.

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