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Thread: Democratic Debate 9/12/2019

  1. Top | #51
    Contributor blastula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half-Life View Post
    Democrats can't unify. Republicans can. That's a big part of why Trump won and why the left can't do anything.
    Except for when Republicans can't. 2018 was just last year

  2. Top | #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by TV and credit cards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Half-Life View Post
    Democrats can't unify. Republicans can. That's a big part of why Trump won and why the left can't do anything.
    The Deplorables can. The ones who have no compunction about publicly stating their intolerable views. Trump won because cowardly closet racists slithered into the voting booth to Make America White Again.
    Yes, those racist disgusting deplorables who are now cheering along with Trump that Hispanic and black unemployment are at ALL TIME LOWS!!!!

    If they were racist, I'd expect them to be outraged about this and figure they would try to come up with ways to keep minorities OUT OF WORK.

    Liberalism is a mental disorder.

  3. Top | #53
    Veteran Member TV and credit cards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half-Life View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TV and credit cards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Half-Life View Post
    Democrats can't unify. Republicans can. That's a big part of why Trump won and why the left can't do anything.
    The Deplorables can. The ones who have no compunction about publicly stating their intolerable views. Trump won because cowardly closet racists slithered into the voting booth to Make America White Again.
    Yes, those racist disgusting deplorables who are now cheering along with Trump that Hispanic and black unemployment are at ALL TIME LOWS!!!!

    If they were racist, I'd expect them to be outraged about this and figure they would try to come up with ways to keep minorities OUT OF WORK.

    Liberalism is a mental disorder.
    The 2016 election wasn't a referendum on the economy. The economy was doing just fine. A lack of comprehension of why black lives matter and attitudes toward illegal immigration were more likely deciding factors in the 2016 election.
    The rest of what you say here is pretty much just crap.
    Dwight

  4. Top | #54
    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half-Life View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TV and credit cards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Half-Life View Post
    Democrats can't unify. Republicans can. That's a big part of why Trump won and why the left can't do anything.
    The Deplorables can. The ones who have no compunction about publicly stating their intolerable views. Trump won because cowardly closet racists slithered into the voting booth to Make America White Again.
    Yes, those racist disgusting deplorables who are now cheering along with Trump that Hispanic and black unemployment are at ALL TIME LOWS!!!!

    If they were racist, I'd expect them to be outraged about this and figure they would try to come up with ways to keep minorities OUT OF WORK.

    Liberalism is a mental disorder.
    Obama did far mor for black employment, everyone's employment for that matter, than Bonespurs.

    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

  5. Top | #55
    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

  6. Top | #56
    Elder Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by TV and credit cards View Post
    A lack of comprehension of why black lives matter
    I agree that #BLM nonsense played a significant role in Trump getting elected. People saw American cities burning in race riots.

    and attitudes toward illegal immigration
    And the current crop of Democratic candidates is making it worse by for example saying that Obama was wrong for deporting illegals.

  7. Top | #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    No, you've misconstrued the controversy I was referring to.
    I don't think I have, but for the record, what's with this reviving of 70s controversies and using them against Biden?

    It goes back to the late 60s and early 70s, when black children were believed by some psychologists to have impoverished intellects that were associated with poor linguistic skills. Biden was responding specifically to a question about reparations and race relations, not whether it was generally a good idea to read to children. Your article had nothing to do with it. Biden was associating racial bias with his past understanding of what the root causes were of poor academic performance in African American children.
    My article had to do with the general idea that parental involvement significantly affects early childhood intellectual development. And if, on average, black parents are less involved (for whatever reason) it would have consequences to their children's academic performance no matter what the schools do. But saying anything that even obliquely suggests that black people might be partially responsible for difference in academic achievement is verboten because it is not politically correct. "Blame whitey" seems to be the only acceptable answer to anything race-related.

    Again, you insert a red herring into the discussion. Biden was talking about exposing black kids to a wider range of vocabulary than he mistakenly believed they were.
    Why do you think he was mistaken?
    And it's not a red herring - it shows how NYC proposes to deal with a difference in academic achievement. Not very productively in my opinion.

    His remarks really harkened back to the old controversy over IQ discrepancies between black kids and white kids. If you are really interested in it, you should read this article by Bill Labov that was published back in 1972: Academic Ignorance and Black Intelligence.
    I think it's pretty obvious both genetic heredity and environment - including home environment - play a role in developing intelligence. Schools play a role too obviously, but can't be solely blamed. And I completely disagree with him that teaching black children using Ebonics (or AAVE if you insist) is a panacea, or even advisable. We do not suggest Appalachian children be instructed in Hillbilly either. That's based on the first part of the article. It turned out to be TL/DR.

    Derec, you are "too deep in with identity politics" for me.
    Not at all. I am merely responding to the identity politics that has infected the Left and the Democratic Party.

    You can't stop posting things about race and your perception of liberal hypocrisy on that subject.
    You can't really blame me given how much currency that topic is being given. Just look at the Democratic debates.

    Elizabeth Warren doesn't dwell on the topic, and she takes positions on race relations that are fairly standard for Democrats (and that I wholeheartedly support).
    You support "reparations"?
    You think Michael Brown was "murdered"?

    I'm not a fan of the term "reparations", but that is something that Democrats are going with.
    Well that's the word that has been in use since well before it became fashionable for high-ranking Democratic politicians to support it. In any case, it's not the word but the concept that is objectionable.

    My problem with it is that average Americans are going to perceive it as something other than what it is really about,
    It's pretty clear what it is about - give free stuff to blacks because of their race.

    and the label is what trips them up.
    Nope. It's the race-based benefits that trips people up together with "collective guilt" used to justify it.

    But Democrats are notoriously ineptt at framing policies in language that doesn't scare the bejeebers out of people who are not part of their ideological base. Republicans seem to be much better at that, IMO.
    True, but in their defense, it is pretty hard to polish that particular turd.

    Probably not. He really doesn't help her to pivot towards the middle ground, which she will need to do in the general election.
    I think he would help her do that. Plus he is young (unlike her) and from the Mid-West, which is the region Dems lost to Trump.

    He likely will not be able to deliver Indiana to her electoral count, and most Americans are probably still ignorant of the fact that he is in a same-sex marriage.
    He doesn't need to deliver Indiana necessarily.

    If she wins the nomination, then I suspect she will pick someone who will help her with turning out African American voters (almost 25% of Democratic voters) and Latinos.
    92% of blacks already vote Democratic, as well as a large majority of hispanics. With her calls for reparations, calling Michael Brown's killing "murder" and opposition to deporting illegals, she'lll do fine with these demographics. Where she will struggle is Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania - i.e. states carried by Trump that Dems need at least some of.

    As more people become aware of it, it will have a negative impact on large numbers of voters. Buttigieg actually has some negative electability issues in that area. However, she will likely find some other role for him in the federal government, if elected. Probably a cabinet secretary.
    I read about it. Some black thug got shot by police and somehow it's Buttigieg's fault. I still think he is a viable Veep choice for somebody like Warren. Who do you think she would pick?

  8. Top | #58
    Cyborg with a Tiara
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    Quote Originally Posted by J842P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    I like Andrew Yang’s answer bringing in how the health care system holds people hostage to jobs. But the “I’m Asian so I know a lot of doctors,” comment is weird and wrong.
    It's not weird, it is clearly a reference to the proclivity of East and South Asian immigrants to press their children into stereotypically high-status jobs, like doctor, lawyer etc. People of Asian ethnicities are highly over-represented in medicine. Have you really never heard of this?
    well, first off, I meant "weird and wrong" to say in a debate setting.
    But secondly, I live in white rural America, so, no.
    Just kidding, sort of, but that is exactly why it;s the wrong thing to say in a debate.

  9. Top | #59
    Veteran Member TV and credit cards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TV and credit cards View Post
    A lack of comprehension of why black lives matter
    I agree that #BLM nonsense played a significant role in Trump getting elected. People saw American cities burning in race riots.
    I will never fully appreciate what it is to live as a black person in the United States. To be a black father raising a child who is coming into understanding of how blacks are perceived by so many whites, as if just raising a child and keeping them on track isn't enough to deal with. To live every day with the anxiety of wondering how you and your family might be treated in a white society, of just going to a restaurant or any of a number of weekend social activities. Not outwardly racist acts but the subtleties of so often being seated near the restrooms while dining out or wait staff you always have to struggle to get the attention of because they just happen to never be looking in your direction or the extra precautions you take just driving or stopping along the side of the road. I'll try to understand and appreciate what a black person deals with on a daily basis but at the end of the day, I get to drive home as a white man.

    But I get it. White people see news reporting on TV and the internet of angry blacks rioting. It's memorable. The end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TV and credit cards View Post
    and attitudes toward illegal immigration
    And the current crop of Democratic candidates is making it worse by for example saying that Obama was wrong for deporting illegals.
    True to a point but the left half of the media played no small role in painting them (Biden) into that corner. I know this was a Biden/Castro exchange recently. I don't know about the "crop".
    Dwight

  10. Top | #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by TV and credit cards View Post

    I will never fully appreciate what it is to live as a black person in the United States. To be a black father raising a child who is coming into understanding of how blacks are perceived by so many whites, as if just raising a child and keeping them on track isn't enough to deal with. To live every day with the anxiety of wondering how you and your family might be treated in a white society, of just going to a restaurant or any of a number of weekend social activities. Not outwardly racist acts but the subtleties of so often being seated near the restrooms while dining out or wait staff you always have to struggle to get the attention of because they just happen to never be looking in your direction or the extra precautions you take just driving or stopping along the side of the road. I'll try to understand and appreciate what a black person deals with on a daily basis but at the end of the day, I get to drive home as a white man.

    But I get it. White people see news reporting on TV and the internet of angry blacks rioting. It's memorable. The end.
    What you just described there is also how people who wear MAGA hats feel when they go out as well.

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