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Thread: Kavanaugh, Part 2

  1. Top | #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctish View Post
    Specify the allegation. What were her exact words as recorded by the police officers or reporters who interviewed her?
    So now you need a transcript before you'd admit that she made a false rape allegation?
    Let me ask you a question. In your mind, what is the exact difference in meaning between "perpetrated a rape hoax" and "made a false rape allegation"?

    She was a 15 year old from a severely dysfunctional family trying to avoid a beating by an extremely violent stepfather.
    I know. It doesn't justify what she did. And she is 47 now and she hasn't come clean. Presumably because she likes the attention from black nationalists too much.

    Yes, she screwed up. Yes, she perpetrated a hoax. Her actions were similar to what Jussie Smollett did, and even though the consequences were more dire, I don't think her offense was. He's an adult. She was a teenager. I don't think she deserves all the ragehate you have for her.
    Yes, Jussie has been compared with Tawana. They did similar things. And they are both despicable. And one could maybe give her a pass for the initial, staged event. But she blamed "white men" for the attack and did not recant even when Sharpton et al found a white man to go after. At least Jussie never identified particular white men he blamed.
    And again, she is persisting in her lie to this day.

    I haven't given her a pass.
    Sounds like you do.

    I don't know how much of what she said was true, how much was false, how much was imagined, and how much was mistaken.
    I see no evidence that any of it was true or even mistaken, rather than deliberately made up.

    Did she imagine it? Did she forget she had given (drunken) consent?
    There was no evidence she had sexual content with anybody at that party. There was evidence she had sex earlier, with somebody else.

    Was she lying because she was angry at the men? Did they promise her money for sex acts and then refuse to pay? Who knows? She still insists she was raped, btw. And perhaps she was, or at least believes she was because that's how she remembers it.
    This is the kind of bullshit apologetics people like you always pull when there is a false rape accusation case. Again, there was no evidence of any sex with anybody at the party. Maybe she offered sex for more money and was angry because nobody would take her up on it? Even if that is true, she is still a false accuser.
    She is also a murderer, so why do you give credence to her still insisting on her lie? Tawana Brawley still insists she was sexually assaulted by white men.

    Nifong pursued the case even though he didn't have sufficient evidence. Worse, he concealed exculpatory evidence from the defense. That offense against justice was 100% his doing. Why do you give him a pass?
    I am not. He carries a great deal of responsibility for the Duke fiasco and he was rightly punished for it. But he is not 100% responsible for it. Without Mangum's false accusation, he would not have had this case to work with. And she was not punished in any way.

    She's paying court ordered restitution. Let me know when she tries to get that judgment overturned.
    Pagones offered to forgive the debt if she would admit she lied and apologizes. She refused. I think, as I said before, that this is because she has gotten used to support and attention by black nationalists and supremacists too much.

  2. Top | #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    If you need to bring up Brawley as evidence that something happens enough that it is a current problem, you don't have too much of an argument. That started in 1987.
    I have listed more recent examples as well. And note that Arctish still supports St. Tawana of the Dog Feces.

  3. Top | #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don2 (Don1 Revised) View Post
    Every time you type that name, a feminist gets her wings.
    You mean like a succubus?

  4. Top | #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Ice cream?? The only things that come to mind for Magnum are condoms and bullets.
    Yes.

  5. Top | #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctish View Post
    Teenagers don't think like adults. Their brains are still developing. They also lack experience. They don't comprehend or appreciate the full range of possible consequences of their actions, which is why adults don't let them make important decisions like enlisting in the army or signing a mortgage. And yet some posters appear to believe that a 15 year old girl should be held to a higher standard than a 17 year old, judged more harshly than an adult, and punished for life for perpetrating a hoax that was never supposed to go as far as it did.
    She is 47 now and still hasn't apologized.

    I disagree. Making an accusation requires making a statement. Brawley implied and hinted but she did not say she was raped. When pressed on the matter, she said she wasn't. She did not file a false report. She did not accuse anyone. She tried to avoid making any kind of statement at all, even before the whole thing blew up into a media sensation. All she was trying to do was avoid a beating by coming up with a really good excuse for not coming home on time.
    She did say she was raped. She only changed it from "rape" to "sexual assault" because she knew that a rape kit would not uncover anything. And she elaborately staged the scene of the attack and she claimed that several white men attacked her. Lastly, she quite enjoyed the spotlight the false accusation gave her.

    She was not somebody who tried to avoid making any statement at all or who did not want the whole thing to blow up. And if she didn't want people to think that she is claiming to have been raped, why is she standing under a huge sign that says "Tawana Brawley was raped". Your apologetics is ridiculous.

  6. Top | #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctish View Post
    She continues to not make statements.
    She has been speaking at events by black nationalist groups.
    For example in 1997. When she was an adult of 25 and not a teenager.
    Quote Originally Posted by Workers World
    Brooklyn, N.Y.—Tawana Brawley ended a 10-year silence about her case Dec. 2, when she spoke to a packed house of cheering supporters. The event was held in the Bedford-Stuyvesant section of Brooklyn, which is overwhelmingly African American and poor.
    Addressing over 800 people at the Bethany Baptist Church, Brawley asserted in a fiery speech, I am not a liar, nor am I crazy. The 25-year-old African American woman was referring to charges she made 10 years ago that six white men had abducted, raped and tortured her over the course of four days.
    [...]
    Brawley said that one of six white men who brutally tortured her had flashed a badge. According to the Feb. 17, 1988, Poughkeepsie Journal, Brawley implicated Dutchess County Sheriff Frederick W. Scoralick. She also reportedly identified Dutchess County Assistant District Attorney Steven Pagones as one of the attackers.
    Tawana Brawley speaks out

    10 years later she still insists she was "raped". She may have changed her story to police when she saw they were going to administer a rape kit, but to the public she has always insisted it was "rape". And she definitely accused specific innocent white men of having attacked her.

    Another article I quoted upthread says she regularly speaks at black nationalist conferences when they fly her out for free.

    One of the stories being told about her and the Duke lacrosse players was that sex acts were performed in the bathroom and there was some question whether the guys paid her, or if she agreed to sex with one but others jumped in without her consent, or if she demanded a certain amount of money per guy and they would only pay for one, or some other kind of theft of services, fraud, monetary dispute, or sexual assault of an inebriate.
    There was no evidence of any sex having taken place in that bathroom. Those stories are just that.

    I don't think anyone has revealed the truth of the matter. I don't think Mangum herself knows, given that she was drunk and taking drugs and behaving so oddly the cops took her to a mental health facility.
    I do not think there is any great mystery as to what happened.

  7. Top | #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Don2 (Don1 Revised) View Post
    Every time you type that name, a feminist gets her wings.
    You mean like a succubus?
    So now you're demonizing them.

  8. Top | #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don2 (Don1 Revised) View Post
    So now you're demonizing them.
    Hey, I did not force them to choose the dark side.

  9. Top | #139
    Veteran Member Arctish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    So now you need a transcript before you'd admit that she made a false rape allegation?
    Let me ask you a question. In your mind, what is the exact difference in meaning between "perpetrated a rape hoax" and "made a false rape allegation"?
    An allegation is a claim; it requires a "this is what happened" statement.

    A hoax is not an accusation or an allegation. It's a staged event that leads people to reach certain conclusions. It might involve a claim but can be perpetrated without them. Jussie Smollett's hoax involved making false claims to the police. Tawana Brawley's hoax did not. In fact, it appears her plan was to be in a 'daze' and unresponsive until she was sent home, but the cops kept coming back for information. Even so, AFAIK she never did make a statement to them.

    I know. It doesn't justify what she did. And she is 47 now and she hasn't come clean. Presumably because she likes the attention from black nationalists too much.
    Or, she believes her best course of action is to keep her head down and not make statements, because anything she says will trigger another round of abuse.

    Yes, she screwed up. Yes, she perpetrated a hoax. Her actions were similar to what Jussie Smollett did, and even though the consequences were more dire, I don't think her offense was. He's an adult. She was a teenager. I don't think she deserves all the ragehate you have for her.
    Yes, Jussie has been compared with Tawana. They did similar things. And they are both despicable. And one could maybe give her a pass for the initial, staged event. But she blamed "white men" for the attack and did not recant even when Sharpton et al found a white man to go after. At least Jussie never identified particular white men he blamed.
    And again, she is persisting in her lie to this day.
    And again, she was 15 years old. You are holding her to a higher standard than an adult. All the hate directed at her, month after month and year after year, doesn't inspire much hope that her saying "it was a hoax" will do anything except fan the flames again. If the punishment for coming clean is ≥ the price of staying mum, she's probably better off not saying anything.

    I haven't given her a pass.
    Sounds like you do.

    I don't know how much of what she said was true, how much was false, how much was imagined, and how much was mistaken.
    I see no evidence that any of it was true or even mistaken, rather than deliberately made up.

    Did she imagine it? Did she forget she had given (drunken) consent?
    There was no evidence she had sexual content with anybody at that party. There was evidence she had sex earlier, with somebody else.

    Was she lying because she was angry at the men? Did they promise her money for sex acts and then refuse to pay? Who knows? She still insists she was raped, btw. And perhaps she was, or at least believes she was because that's how she remembers it.
    This is the kind of bullshit apologetics people like you always pull when there is a false rape accusation case. Again, there was no evidence of any sex with anybody at the party. Maybe she offered sex for more money and was angry because nobody would take her up on it? Even if that is true, she is still a false accuser.
    She is also a murderer, so why do you give credence to her still insisting on her lie?
    Because she was intoxicated, behaving erratically, and something happened at that party that caused it to end early and badly. I don't know what happened, or what she imagined happened. I do know that mixing alcohol and muscle relaxants affects brain function and can lead to confusion, irritability, and memory problems, all of which she seems to have displayed that night. I wouldn't be surprised to find out she has an undiagnosed mental health issue. That doesn't make her a liar. It doesn't make her not a liar, either. It makes her story unbelievable without corroborating evidence.
    .
    Tawana Brawley still insists she was sexually assaulted by white men.
    Her mother and stepfather keep insisting it. AFAIK Brawley has maintained her silence on the subject.


    Nifong pursued the case even though he didn't have sufficient evidence. Worse, he concealed exculpatory evidence from the defense. That offense against justice was 100% his doing. Why do you give him a pass?
    I am not. He carries a great deal of responsibility for the Duke fiasco and he was rightly punished for it. But he is not 100% responsible for it. Without Mangum's false accusation, he would not have had this case to work with. And she was not punished in any way.
    There's a difference between a lie and an unproven claim. There's a difference between lying and being mistaken. Mangum's claims are unproven. They might be lies or they might be what she thinks actually happened. There's no easy way to tell, which is why she wasn't charged with a crime.

    Nifong should never have pursued the Duke case without corroborating evidence. He should never have hidden exculpatory evidence from the Defense. And Sharpton should never have accused anyone by name. He had no evidence to support his accusations at all. But you never mention them when you're repeating your litany of false rape accusers despite the fact they were the ones doing the accusing.

    Perhaps the next time you post that list of false rape accusers, you can be a little bit more accurate and say "Al Sharpton in the Tawana Brawley case, Mike Nifong in the Duke lacrosse team case, etc..."

    She's paying court ordered restitution. Let me know when she tries to get that judgment overturned.
    Pagones offered to forgive the debt if she would admit she lied and apologizes. She refused. I think, as I said before, that this is because she has gotten used to support and attention by black nationalists and supremacists too much.
    You're probably right that she likes the support she gets. Anyone in her situation would. Heck, even people who aren't in her situation like getting support. So what?

    Earlier in this thread you expressed your support for Brett Kavanaugh. You said you hope he isn't dogged his whole life by things he did when he was a teenager. In the thread about Brock Turner you expressed a similar hope that after serving a few months in jail for sexual assault, he can get on with his life. And although you didn't comment on the 16 year old who recorded his sexual assault of a classmate and sent it out with the text message "When your first time having sex was rape", I have no doubt you feel sympathy for the guy and you're glad the judge went easy on him.

    Why is it you only ever show that kind of compassion for teenagers when they're male?
    Last edited by Arctish; 09-20-2019 at 06:45 AM.

  10. Top | #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    If you need to bring up Brawley as evidence that something happens enough that it is a current problem, you don't have too much of an argument. That started in 1987.
    I have listed more recent examples as well. And note that Arctish still supports St. Tawana of the Dog Feces.
    I note Pope Derec of the Church of The Immaculate White Male Defendant is still sanctifying people he finds worthy.

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