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Thread: Cocked and Loaded on Behalf of the Saudis

  1. Top | #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by James Brown View Post
    "We need to fight them over there so that they don't immigrate here."

    Seen on a FoxNews comment.
    Maybe I'm missing something but SA would probably allow Trump and Co. to build towers in the kingdom, and that's good for America. Plus we get to sell them lots of bombs and spend lots of money defending them militarily. Plus we get to spend lots more money making war on their enemies.

    Looks like a win, win, win, win, win for all the right-wingers out there. You ain't no kinda right-winger if you ain't got enemies.
    The US can make FAR, FAR more money rounding up all the black and brown people in the country and selling them individually as slaves to SA. So... that's an even better idea, according to your logic.

  2. Top | #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    That's kinda my point. Saudi Arabia is despised by every muslim I know.
    Are "Muslims you know" Shiites and Muslim Brothers?
    I understand that is anecdotal, but SA is pretty much a shithole country.
    In many aspects yes, in others no. And MbS has been instituting some reforms. Pity that he is in the international dog house just because he had a propagandist for the Muslim Brotherhood killed.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Spectator
    In truth, Khashoggi never had much time for western-style pluralistic democracy. In the 1970s he joined the Muslim Brotherhood, which exists to rid the Islamic world of western influence. He was a political Islamist until the end, recently praising the Muslim Brotherhood in the Washington Post. He championed the ‘moderate’ Islamist opposition in Syria, whose crimes against humanity are a matter of record. Khashoggi frequently sugarcoated his Islamist beliefs with constant references to freedom and democracy. But he never hid that he was in favour of a Muslim Brotherhood arc throughout the Middle East. His recurring plea to bin Salman in his columns was to embrace not western-style democracy, but the rise of political Islam which the Arab Spring had inadvertently given rise to. For Khashoggi, secularism was the enemy.
    And everything wrong with it is what people like Derec and others say is also what is fundamentally wrong with Islam.
    To a great extent this is true. But the Saudi government is more moderate than Arabia would be if the monarchy were overthrown. And for the last few decades it has been playing nice with the West, even with Israel.
    And yet they are the goodies and Iran is the baddies? I'm pretty confused.
    They are certainly not "goodies", but the weird beards running Iran are certainly "baddies".

  3. Top | #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something but SA would probably allow Trump and Co. to build towers in the kingdom, and that's good for America.
    US is already involved in building towers in KSA. For example in the Jeddah Tower project.

    Plus we get to sell them lots of bombs and spend lots of money defending them militarily.
    And selling weapons to our allies is wrong because?

    In addition, Saudis spend a lot of money in US (as well as in Europe) on things other than weapons.

    Plus we get to spend lots more money making war on their enemies.

    Looks like a win, win, win, win, win for all the right-wingers out there. You ain't no kinda right-winger if you ain't got enemies.
    And left-wingers have no enemies?

  4. Top | #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    You forgot that SA, the government behind funding 9/11,
    It was Saudi individuals who were involved in 9/11, not the government.

    buys American guns (and a lot of them),
    Yes. We make bank. Would you rather they bought weapons from Russia? Putin would be very happy to sell to them.

    and sells America oil (and a lot of it),
    Not really that much. Maybe 1 mbbl/d.
    KSA does, however, have huge reserves, export a lot of oil in total, and is the swing producer, i.e. they have (at least when they are not attacked by Iran) significant swing capacity. That makes them important geopolitically.

    therefore they can do no wrong.
    They can do, and actually do, plenty wrong. But you don't have to be friends with all your allies.

    Instead, look at Iran, Iraq Palestine. Pay no attention to the Saudi Prince behind the curtain.
    You think the attack was a Sender Gleiwitz type of thing? Really?

  5. Top | #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbos View Post
    Sorry, "internationally recognized government" ran away and as "Yanukovich vs. protesters" precedent shows they are no longer recognized.
    And that makes it ok that a foreign power (and one openly hostile to US and our allies) establish a sort of Vichy government?

  6. Top | #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    Never thought I'd see Derec defending the bastion of everything that is wrong with Islam. Personally, I think "both sides" are equally fucked in this particular dispute.
    They are the lesser of two evils for reasons I have expounded in other replies.

  7. Top | #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    I think if I was in the military, I'd rather face a courts martial than fight for KSA.
    You would not be "fighting for KSA", you'd be fighting for national interests of the US, which in this case means defending KSA from Iranian aggression.

  8. Top | #38
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
    I think if I was in the military, I'd rather face a courts martial than fight for KSA.
    You would not be "fighting for KSA", you'd be fighting for national interests of the US, which in this case means defending KSA from Iranian aggression.
    There's no Iranian aggression. There's just retaliation by Yemenis, against Saudis, using weapons purchased from the Yemenis' ally, Iran.

    As a wise man once asked:
    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    And selling weapons to our allies is wrong because?

  9. Top | #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    There's no Iranian aggression. There's just retaliation by Yemenis, against Saudis, using weapons purchased from the Yemenis' ally, Iran.
    1. It seems that the attack did not originate in Yemen, but in Iran.
    Saudi oil field attack originated from Iran, used combination of cruise missiles and drones, officials say
    U.S. Satellites Detected Iran Readying Weapons Ahead Of Saudi Strike, Officials Say
    2. Even if it had originated in Yemen, Houthis are Iranian proxies who overran the Yemeni government with the aim of installing a puppet government. The Houthis are like Hezbollah, a wholly owned foreign subsidiary of the IRGC. Thus, Iran would still be responsible.
    Last edited by Derec; 09-18-2019 at 07:28 AM.

  10. Top | #40
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bilby View Post
    There's no Iranian aggression. There's just retaliation by Yemenis, against Saudis, using weapons purchased from the Yemenis' ally, Iran.
    1. It seems that the attack did not originate in Yemen, but in Iran.
    Saudi oil field attack originated from Iran, used combination of cruise missiles and drones, officials say
    U.S. Satellites Detected Iran Readying Weapons Ahead Of Saudi Strike, Officials Say
    2. Even if it had originated in Yemen, Houthis are Iranian proxies who overran the Yemeni government with the aim of installing a puppet government. The Houthis are like Hezbollah, a wholly owned foreign subsidiary of the IRGC. Thus, Iran would still be responsible.
    I don't believe what the "officials say", now that they've had plenty of time to think up a spin that supports their objective of going to war with Iran.

    And there's never been a revolutionary/terrorist/freedom fighter organisation in history that has been a wholly owned subsidiary of their sponsors. Much to the dismay of many such sponsors (including the USA) on many occasions.

    So I don't believe your spin, either. It would be just as reasonable, and just as wrong, to say that the Saudis are a wholly owned subsidiary of the Pentagon.

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