Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 106

Thread: Just imagine if this was an Iranian drone strike on a Western nation

  1. Top | #11
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    15,562
    Archived
    15,686
    Total Posts
    31,248
    Rep Power
    79
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Well, more, we have a common name to refer to someone who is bad at being good: evil.
    Evil requires intent. Like Taliban and ISIS intentionally suicide bombing civilian targets.
    Taliban suicide attacks in Afghanistan leave dozens dead
    Afghanistan: Bomb kills 63 at wedding in Kabul

    Mistakes happen, and they are by themselves not evil.

    Nobody generally sees a villain in the mirror. Villain is a label earned and given, not decided upon and taken.
    Yes, Taliban, ISIS or Iranian theocrats all likely think they are the good guys. So what? That doesn't mean they are not qualitatively different than US.

  2. Top | #12
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Burnsville, MN
    Posts
    3,028
    Archived
    2,911
    Total Posts
    5,939
    Rep Power
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    Well, more, we have a common name to refer to someone who is bad at being good: evil.
    Evil requires intent. Like Taliban and ISIS intentionally suicide bombing civilian targets.
    Taliban suicide attacks in Afghanistan leave dozens dead
    Afghanistan: Bomb kills 63 at wedding in Kabul

    Mistakes happen, and they are by themselves not evil.

    Nobody generally sees a villain in the mirror. Villain is a label earned and given, not decided upon and taken.
    Yes, Taliban, ISIS or Iranian theocrats all likely think they are the good guys. So what? That doesn't mean they are not qualitatively different than US.
    The appearance of impropriety is sufficient for a judgement of impropriety in most ethical situations. The fact is, a shitton of farmers got murdered. It doesn't matter if it was bad Intel or a bad decision or an act of desperation by a flailing idiot. It's an ethical failing to deploy a weapon in a situation where the situation hasn't been researched.

    And everyone has an obligation, if they wish to have others accept them as they see themselves, to look in the mirror and ask hard and long "AM I the villain?"

    The fact that you are looking in the proverbial mirror and saying "There's certainly no villain there!" that's exactly the way a villain lives.

  3. Top | #13
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    15,562
    Archived
    15,686
    Total Posts
    31,248
    Rep Power
    79
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Whether or not the Taliban are in power in Afghanistan is not the entirety of the situation in Afghanistan. We have the resources to strike at the root causes of terrorism: poverty, unemployment, hunger, ignorance and disease.
    Those are not the root causes of terrorism. Most terrorists are not poor, or uneducated. Bin Laden was the scion of one of the richest families in Saudi Arabia - the family which advertised on Williams F1 cars in the 70s and is building the tallest skyscraper in the world today. The root cause is Islamism, which is endemic in Afghanistan.

    But this cannot happen because the country is at the nexus of imperialism due to its oil resources, and this is the real reason we remain there.
    What oil resources?

  4. Top | #14
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    15,161
    Archived
    41,943
    Total Posts
    57,104
    Rep Power
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by Derec




    The problem is also that 98% of Afghans are radical Islamists who believe in things like Sharia law.
    How do we know 98% of Afghans are radical Islamists? What methodology was used?

  5. Top | #15
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    15,562
    Archived
    15,686
    Total Posts
    31,248
    Rep Power
    79
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    How do we know 98% of Afghans are radical Islamists? What methodology was used?
    I base it on the Pew Study of Muslim beliefs.
    For example, support for Sharia Law:

  6. Top | #16
    Elder Contributor
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    15,161
    Archived
    41,943
    Total Posts
    57,104
    Rep Power
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    How do we know 98% of Afghans are radical Islamists? What methodology was used?
    I base it on the Pew Study of Muslim beliefs.
    For example, support for Sharia Law:
    You falsely equate “support for Islamic law” with “radical Islam”, because there is not widespread agreement among Moslems about what Islamic law entails.

  7. Top | #17
    Formerly Joedad
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    PA USA
    Posts
    5,261
    Archived
    5,039
    Total Posts
    10,300
    Rep Power
    75
    I'm astonished that people like Derec who are fighting for America in Afghanistan have the time to engage in internet chats. I would think they'd be too busy pursuing their goal of saving Afghanistan for America. My hat goes off to these glorious warriors. Thank-you for your gallant service! God's speed, my friend!

  8. Top | #18
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    24,824
    Archived
    96,752
    Total Posts
    121,576
    Rep Power
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Whether or not the Taliban are in power in Afghanistan is not the entirety of the situation in Afghanistan. We have the resources to strike at the root causes of terrorism: poverty, unemployment, hunger, ignorance and disease. But this cannot happen because the country is at the nexus of imperialism due to its oil resources, and this is the real reason we remain there.
    No. The left likes to pretend that these are the causes of terrorism but when you look at the world the areas where these are greatest generally do not have much terrorism.

    Terrorism at more than the isolate incident level requires Islamists trying to seize power or occasionally leftists trying to seize power. The thing is terrorism requires substantial outside funding. These days this mostly comes from Muslim governments and rich Muslims. We have a few leftists who get their funding from controlling resources in the area they are trying to control (mostly this is drugs.) There used to be a lot more leftist terrorism but Moscow pretty much quit funding it and now there isn't much of it left.

    Note, also, that your infographic is deceptive. It counts deaths and injuries, not who caused them.

  9. Top | #19
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    24,824
    Archived
    96,752
    Total Posts
    121,576
    Rep Power
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by Derec View Post
    Evil requires intent. Like Taliban and ISIS intentionally suicide bombing civilian targets.
    Disagree--recklessness can be evil.

    Note, also, that we don't know if this was actually bad targeting or not. It is routine for the Islamists to use innocents as cover for their actions.

  10. Top | #20
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    3,560
    Rep Power
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post

    I think it's very fair. You constantly murder large groups of civilians...
    Not true... usually it is a dozen or three or four dozen tops each incident. We just have a high number of incidents. [/sarcasm]
    ...in pursuit of some nebulous goal that not even you can properly define and, after eighteen years of trying, all that mass murder hasn't brought you anything except increased revenue for defense contractors. Your only reason for continuing to do it at this point is because you value not looking weak more than you value the lives of innocents.
    I think in general, we are still there because if we leave, the Taliban move back in and no one wins with that.

    That's not doing a poor job of being good anymore than Jeffrey Dahmer simply did a poor job of trying to add more meat to his diet. It's being fucking evil.
    No, being fucking evil would be nuking Afghanistan. Being pathetic would be making a "peace deal" with the Taliban. The US has no good option in Afghanistan. US forces accidentally kill dozens while the Taliban intentionally kills hundreds. No good comes from any of it.

    The US will most certainly not defeat the Taliban. Should the US let the Taliban take the nation over again?
    I agree with you Jimmy. We have no good option. If we completely pull out: thousands of civilians will die. Women will lose their hard earned rights. Little girls will go back to being baby factories. If the world allows this happen, the world is evil.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •