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Thread: Pelosi: Impeachment Is Moving Forward

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    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blastula View Post

    Your point?
    That politicians asking foreign agents to dig up dirt on their opponents didn't start with Trump and is a shaky foundation for the DNC to be using as sole grounds for impeachment
    We've had issues with Nixon and Reagan dealings with Vietnam and Iran, respectively, for electoral purposes. That doesn't make when Trump did legal. Especially with the Shadow State Department running through Giuliani.
    It's still a stretch for the DNC to pick that hill to die on, given they did essentially the same thing with Steele in more recent memory, though. They were smarter about it and used indirect means, third parties, private corporations, and so on. But there can be no "sir, how DARE you" to Trump on the part of the DNC leadership, or indeed anyone who cheered on the Steele dossier and hoped it uncovered something juicy, without confronting the fact that Trump's impeachable mistake was, comparatively speaking, getting caught.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    We've had issues with Nixon and Reagan dealings with Vietnam and Iran, respectively, for electoral purposes. That doesn't make when Trump did legal. Especially with the Shadow State Department running through Giuliani.
    It's still a stretch for the DNC to pick that hill to die on, given they did essentially the same thing with Steele in more recent memory, though.They were smarter about it and used indirect means, third parties, private corporations, and so on.
    Firstly, that wouldn't be "the same thing" then. Secondly, Steele Dossier started with the right-wing investigating Trump, not the Democratic White House. Thirdly, what hundreds of millions in military welfare payments was involved?
    But there can be no "sir, how DARE you" to Trump on the part of the DNC leadership, or indeed anyone who cheered on the Steele dossier and hoped it uncovered something juicy, without confronting the fact that Trump's impeachable mistake was, comparatively speaking, getting caught.
    His impeachable "mistakes" are multiple obstruction of justice charges, emolument violations (they aren't even hiding it now), intimidating Federal whistleblower and witnesses, and asking Ukraine to investigate Biden in order to get weapons from the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    We've had issues with Nixon and Reagan dealings with Vietnam and Iran, respectively, for electoral purposes. That doesn't make when Trump did legal. Especially with the Shadow State Department running through Giuliani.
    It's still a stretch for the DNC to pick that hill to die on, given they did essentially the same thing with Steele in more recent memory, though. They were smarter about it and used indirect means, third parties, private corporations, and so on. But there can be no "sir, how DARE you" to Trump on the part of the DNC leadership, or indeed anyone who cheered on the Steele dossier and hoped it uncovered something juicy, without confronting the fact that Trump's impeachable mistake was, comparatively speaking, getting caught.
    Steele dossier was a right wing thang.

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    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Firstly, that wouldn't be "the same thing" then. Secondly, Steele Dossier started with the right-wing investigating Trump, not the Democratic White House. Thirdly, what hundreds of millions in military welfare payments was involved?
    But there can be no "sir, how DARE you" to Trump on the part of the DNC leadership, or indeed anyone who cheered on the Steele dossier and hoped it uncovered something juicy, without confronting the fact that Trump's impeachable mistake was, comparatively speaking, getting caught.
    His impeachable "mistakes" are multiple obstruction of justice charges, emolument violations (they aren't even hiding it now), intimidating Federal whistleblower and witnesses, and asking Ukraine to investigate Biden in order to get weapons from the US.
    I agree there's a lot to work with for impeachment, and I hope they broaden the inquiry accordingly.

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    Veteran Member Treedbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    ...
    His impeachable "mistakes" are multiple obstruction of justice charges, emolument violations (they aren't even hiding it now), intimidating Federal whistleblower and witnesses, and asking Ukraine to investigate Biden in order to get weapons from the US.
    I agree there's a lot to work with for impeachment, and I hope they broaden the inquiry accordingly.
    Pelosi wants to focus on Ukraine because things like emoluments violations will become a stalemate. That is, up to the present. Up until now there have been no precedent-setting cases. But this latest move to have the G7 summit at the Trump Doral resort is so blatantly over the line they shouldn't wait until it happens to make it an impeachable issue. It has to be brought before the public now if we are ever to take it seriously again. Accepting payments from foreign entities would be the ultimate source of corruption. It is simply unacceptable, and I think many Republican voters would agree.

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    Ya, you actually want to keep it simple and not confuse the issue with multiple crimes. The Ukraine thing is a very clear cut case of an impeachable offense where everyone involved has already admitted to committing the crime, so KISS.

    Yes, Trump has also committed multiple other felonies and those can be dealt with by the criminal court system once he's out of office ... because apparently waiting until then is a thing? ... but keep a clear and focused impeachment inquiry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    ... but keep a clear and focused impeachment inquiry.
    Maybe his defense strategy is to keep piling on felonies so the inquiry never ends.

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    Contributor blastula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blastula View Post

    Your point?
    That politicians asking foreign agents to dig up dirt on their opponents didn't start with Trump and is a shaky foundation for the DNC to be using as sole grounds for impeachment
    Clinton hired Fusion GPS to do oppo research, and they contracted Steele. Nothing illegal or unethical about it even if she hired Steele directly. It's legal to hire foreigners to do legal work for you on a campaign.

    Trump used his office to request a personal political favor from another country, and using US aide as inducement, which is clearly corrupt and potentially illegal.

    The alt left loves to share talking points with the conspiracy theorist right.

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    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blastula View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blastula View Post

    Your point?
    That politicians asking foreign agents to dig up dirt on their opponents didn't start with Trump and is a shaky foundation for the DNC to be using as sole grounds for impeachment
    Clinton hired Fusion GPS to do oppo research, and they contracted Steele. Nothing illegal or unethical about it even if she hired Steele directly. It's legal to hire foreigners to do legal work for you on a campaign.

    Trump used his office to request a personal political favor from another country, and using US aide as inducement, which is clearly corrupt and potentially illegal.
    I agree the two cases are not exactly the same. However, materially speaking, there is not much daylight between a former Secretary of State using a firm who then hires a former British spy, and a current President directly asking another foreign official, both for the purposes of winning a domestic election. The added layer of quid-pro-quo in Trump's case distinguishes the cases further, although there doesn't seem to be any direct evidence of that.

    But in both cases, an outside party with an affiliation to another country is being recruited, either directly or by proxy, to help an American candidate win an upcoming election. In both cases, the political stature of the person making the request played a role in their ability to make it--with Clinton leveraging the party itself as well as the FBI, and Trump using his position as POTUS.

    The alt left loves to share talking points with the conspiracy theorist right.
    The alt-left is not a thing no matter how many times the term is written, spoken aloud, or typed. It's just not.

  10. Top | #720
    Contributor blastula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blastula View Post

    Clinton hired Fusion GPS to do oppo research, and they contracted Steele. Nothing illegal or unethical about it even if she hired Steele directly. It's legal to hire foreigners to do legal work for you on a campaign.

    Trump used his office to request a personal political favor from another country, and using US aide as inducement, which is clearly corrupt and potentially illegal.
    I agree the two cases are not exactly the same. However, materially speaking, there is not much daylight between a former Secretary of State using a firm who then hires a former British spy, and a current President directly asking another foreign official, both for the purposes of winning a domestic election. The added layer of quid-pro-quo in Trump's case distinguishes the cases further, although there doesn't seem to be any direct evidence of that.
    Nonsense, even without the quid pro quo. Clinton as a private individual hired another private individual Steele to do legitimate legal work. What was wrong or illegal with what Steele did? And Clinton never even used Steele's information in her campaign, so this can only be very fake or ignorant outrage.

    Trump was trying to get a foreign government to basically manufacture dirt on his political opponent for no legitimate governmental purpose. Multiple people even in his administration who saw it happening recognized the illegitimacy of the plot.

    The alt left loves to share talking points with the conspiracy theorist right.
    The alt-left is not a thing no matter how many times the term is written, spoken aloud, or typed. It's just not.
    Just because the members don't call themselves that, doesn't mean it's not descriptive. The radical far right don't call themselves by that name.

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