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Thread: Syria, Turks, and Kurds

  1. Top | #11
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    If it is a strawman, then explain how the third post in this thread says that my post was a republican talking point.

    Neocons want to stay in. That describes most of this thread. Neocons never pull out.

  2. Top | #12
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    Trump is very weak on foreign matters. He should have retaliated against Iran for downing our drone and for attacking Saudi oil facilities. And he should not be abandoning the Kurds. I wonder if he is doing these things to please Put-put.

  3. Top | #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post
    Neocons never pull out.
    It's a poor birth control method anyway!

  4. Top | #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post
    So Trump is announcing his intent to pull US troops out of Syria.

    Way back down the memory hole, I remember when Democrats thought Bush was far too militaristic, throwing troops around the world without any thought. Obama taught them to stop worrying and love the war.

    Now Democrats who hate everything Trump does and Republicans who are opposed to peace in the Middle East are united against Trump.

    So much for the anti-war left.

    It is being described as abandoning "our allies" the Kurds, who may or may not be invaded by "our allies" the Turks. Apparently our allies want to war with each other and the only reason they don't is because we are holding them apart. Holding them apart is supposed to be a job for the US. It isn't a job I would choose for the US.

    It seems that as much as nobody cares when troops are sent in, it is some sort of crisis when troops are pulled out.
    I agree. All foreign policy decisions must be made with a clear binary set of ethics without any context or consideration of unintended consequences. That's why throwing Afghan freedom fighters under the bus in the 1980s was the smart thing to do. It absolutely had no ramifications down the road. This decision will be fine as well. It will be perfect, just wait.

  5. Top | #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post
    So Trump is announcing his intent to pull US troops out of Syria.

    Way back down the memory hole, I remember when Democrats thought Bush was far too militaristic, throwing troops around the world without any thought. Obama taught them to stop worrying and love the war.

    Now Democrats who hate everything Trump does and Republicans who are opposed to peace in the Middle East are united against Trump.

    So much for the anti-war left.

    It is being described as abandoning "our allies" the Kurds, who may or may not be invaded by "our allies" the Turks. Apparently our allies want to war with each other and the only reason they don't is because we are holding them apart. Holding them apart is supposed to be a job for the US. It isn't a job I would choose for the US.

    It seems that as much as nobody cares when troops are sent in, it is some sort of crisis when troops are pulled out.
    I agree. All foreign policy decisions must be made with a clear binary set of ethics without any context or consideration of unintended consequences. That's why throwing Afghan freedom fighters under the bus in the 1980s was the smart thing to do. It absolutely had no ramifications down the road. This decision will be fine as well. It will be perfect, just wait.
    Good post. Jason: believe it or not most of us on the left want more peace in the world, less war. Most of us were against Iraq invasion. Most of us want to pull back from the world militarily. However, to believe that the US only brings death and chaos is not realistic. A hasty ill-thought out retreat can be just as deadly on civilians as a hasty ill-thought out invasion. People are going to needlessly suffer due to US withdraw.

  6. Top | #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post
    So Trump is announcing his intent to pull US troops out of Syria.

    Way back down the memory hole, I remember when Democrats thought Bush was far too militaristic, throwing troops around the world without any thought. Obama taught them to stop worrying and love the war.

    Now Democrats who hate everything Trump does and Republicans who are opposed to peace in the Middle East are united against Trump.

    So much for the anti-war left.

    It is being described as abandoning "our allies" the Kurds, who may or may not be invaded by "our allies" the Turks. Apparently our allies want to war with each other and the only reason they don't is because we are holding them apart. Holding them apart is supposed to be a job for the US. It isn't a job I would choose for the US.

    It seems that as much as nobody cares when troops are sent in, it is some sort of crisis when troops are pulled out.
    I agree. All foreign policy decisions must be made with a clear binary set of ethics without any context or consideration of unintended consequences. That's why throwing Afghan freedom fighters under the bus in the 1980s was the smart thing to do. It absolutely had no ramifications down the road. This decision will be fine as well. It will be perfect, just wait.
    If the US hadn't gotten involved in supporting them, then withdrawing that support wouldn't be "throwing Afghan freedom fighters under the bus". Isn't it fun to describe non-intervention as a half-way measure the way Neocons always do?

  7. Top | #17
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    Well, this should pull some interest away from his issue with Ukraine. Admittedly, it’s a doozy. It had to be. Sorry Kurds. You understand.
    Dwight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post
    If the US hadn't gotten involved in supporting them
    I agree. But guess what? They fucking did. You seem to think foreign policy should be made in a vacuum. That's amazingly naive.
    Isn't it fun to describe non-intervention as a half-way measure the way Neocons always do?
    But I'm not a neocon. I'm a nazi. If your argument depends on name calling, I would appreciate it if you called me a nazi, like everybody else.

  9. Top | #19
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    I think both sides are somewhat wrong. Option#3: Our focus in an alliance with the Kurds ought to be in helping them with self-defense and in helping them with self-determination, i.e. an independent Kurdistan.

    There is some overlap with these ideas in helping them to occupy Northeastern Syria, but not enough. On there other hand, leaving them means Turkey will go on the offensive against them to occupy Northeastern Syria.

    No easy answer. So I support option#3 above.

  10. Top | #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Harvestdancer View Post
    If the US hadn't gotten involved in supporting them
    I agree. But guess what? They fucking did. You seem to think foreign policy should be made in a vacuum. That's amazingly naive.
    Not as much naive as it is the ivory pedestal Jason perches atop is so high, the oxygen content in the air is rather low.

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