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Thread: Choosing to wear hijab is an endorsement of the oppression that created the custom

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    Choosing to wear hijab is an endorsement of the oppression that created the custom

    The hijab issue has created a divide among liberals and feminists who otherwise share a desire to reduce the oppression of women.

    Those who focus upon the women forced to wear it, see it as a symbol of oppression. Those who focus on the women who choose to wear it, especially in western democracies see it as a symbol of freedom.

    Those who claim that wearing the hijab is compatible with feminism, typically argue that this b/c some women choose to wear it.

    There should be no law requiring wearing or not wearing the hijab.
    However, I would argue that when it is worn freely and by choice, that is precisely when it most endorses and trivializes the oppression of women.

    You can not make any kind of statement when you are merely doing something that you have no choice in. It's only chosen actions that make a statement. And since people can clearly endorse oppression, people can clearly use their freedom to endorse a lack of freedom.

    The practice of wearing a hijab was created to control and oppress women. And violent force against women is the only reason it ever became a custom that reflects Islamic belief. Islamic women in democracies that choose to wear it, are doing so b/c it's an Islamic custom and therefore wearing it is a way to express their religious beliefs. But it only became a custom that reflects those beliefs b/c of violent oppression, and that oppression that still exist in countries controlled by Islam and is the reason why the vast majority of women who wear it do so. There can be no reasonable doubt that with liberty and equality, the custom of the hijab would disappear over time. So, wearing it as a choice endorses that oppression that created and maintains the custom. It's like treating the continued oppression of those forced to wear into a kind of fashion statement. It helps to hide the fact that the majority of women who wear it only do so b/c of oppression.

    Women should NOT be forcibly prevented from wearing a hijab, but they they should not celebrated for doing so, and it should be criticized for the way such a choice promotes and endorses a custom that only exists b/c of historical and continued violent oppression of women.

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    Why is wearing a hijab oppression? It is a head scarf that doesn't cover the face.

    The niqab (apparently that is a thing too) and burka would be the oppressive form of clothing which acts to almost make a woman's presence vanish in public.

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    Tying the historical beginnings to the current happenings seems inappropriate. How ghastly the origins of a custom may be does itself speak to the custom’s current state of affairs. If marriage had a horrible history but now isn’t, then okay, it might not have become what it is today, but the celebration of how things are is not an endorsement or acceptance of its early evolutionary development.

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    In Ontario is is legal for women to walk around in public topless with breasts exposed. When women choose to cover their chests with shirts, is that an endorsement of oppression of women too?

    The hajib and niqab are often chosen by women who decide to wear them in the west for the sake of personal modesty and to keep lustful eyes off of them. They wear niqab and hajib instead of ski masks because it is more socially accepted and fits their culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Why is wearing a hijab oppression? It is a head scarf that doesn't cover the face.

    The niqab (apparently that is a thing too) and burka would be the oppressive form of clothing which acts to almost make a woman's presence vanish in public.
    Women occassionally wearing a head scarf is not a hijab. Women wearing one to represent their Islamic beliefs is a hijab, and it is only represents that and is only a custom b/c of centuries of violence forcing women to wear it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly_Penguin View Post
    In Ontario is is legal for women to walk around in public topless with breasts exposed. When women choose to cover their chests with shirts, is that an endorsement of oppression of women too?

    The hajib and niqab are often chosen by women who decide to wear them in the west for the sake of personal modesty and to keep lustful eyes off of them. They wear niqab and hajib instead of ski masks because it is more socially accepted and fits their culture.
    How is a head scarf being modest? Other than preventing people from having Farrah Fawcet hair?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly_Penguin View Post
    In Ontario is is legal for women to walk around in public topless with breasts exposed. When women choose to cover their chests with shirts, is that an endorsement of oppression of women too?

    The hajib and niqab are often chosen by women who decide to wear them in the west for the sake of personal modesty and to keep lustful eyes off of them. They wear niqab and hajib instead of ski masks because it is more socially accepted and fits their culture.
    How is a head scarf being modest? Other than preventing people from having Farrah Fawcet hair?
    You answered your own question. The entire hairstyle industry says hello. Some women also choose to wear no makeup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronburgundy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Higgins View Post
    Why is wearing a hijab oppression? It is a head scarf that doesn't cover the face.

    The niqab (apparently that is a thing too) and burka would be the oppressive form of clothing which acts to almost make a woman's presence vanish in public.
    Women occassionally wearing a head scarf is not a hijab. Women wearing one to represent their Islamic beliefs is a hijab, and it is only represents that and is only a custom b/c of centuries of violence forcing women to wear it.
    Looking it up...

    A hijab in common English usage is a veil worn by some Muslim women in the presence of any male outside of their immediate family, which usually covers the head and chest.

    Hmm, I suppose that portion is bullshit.

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    By Ron's logic here how is a woman choosing to wear a shirt on a hot day not also just based on oppression?

    These are two points along the same spectrum. It's why nudists talk about freedom, but is personal modesty not also a thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly_Penguin View Post
    In Ontario is is legal for women to walk around in public topless with breasts exposed. When women choose to cover their chests with shirts, is that an endorsement of oppression of women too?

    The hajib and niqab are often chosen by women who decide to wear them in the west for the sake of personal modesty and to keep lustful eyes off of them. They wear niqab and hajib instead of ski masks because it is more socially accepted and fits their culture.
    Idiotic false equivalence. Women everywhere, regardless of law choose to cover their breasts most of the time. What women cover their head everytime they leave the home or even in the home when non-familial males enter? Almost exclusively Islamic women raised in cultures where the practice was forced upon women, which includes those now western countries but who were forced by their Islamic sub-culture to wear one since childhood. Unless you want to claim that Islamic women are genetically determined to prefer to do something that all other women are not, then it is clearly a case of cultural force and coercion, and proves if there was no such coercion, almost none of the women currently "choosing" to wear one would choose it.

    The custom and "culture" would not exist w/o the continued use of violence to forces and association between it and being an Islamic woman. So, there is no way to practice that aspect of their culture without inherently endorsing that violence that created and sustains it as part of the culture.

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