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Thread: Undocumented Immigrants are paying into social security?

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    Undocumented Immigrants are paying into social security?

    According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019...ty-separa.aspx

    Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

    As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

    Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.

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    Before someone is hired, a SS# has to be on file. Once that number is filed, the employer has to deduct and then remit deductions. The same goes for any Federal and state taxes or unemployment benefit taxes.

    Failure to do this is a crime in itself, and possibly an acknowlegment that the worker had presented illegal documents.

    Don't expect to see any crackdown on employers because of undocumented workers. That's not the way it works. Our immigrant worker laws are written to accommodate "plausible deniability" for the employer. The only time we're likely to see an employer arrested is when real slave conditions are discovered. In this case, regular law enforcement will be on the scene, not Federal immigration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    Before someone is hired, a SS# has to be on file. Once that number is filed, the employer has to deduct and then remit deductions. The same goes for any Federal and state taxes or unemployment benefit taxes.

    Failure to do this is a crime in itself, and possibly an acknowlegment that the worker had presented illegal documents.

    Don't expect to see any crackdown on employers because of undocumented workers. That's not the way it works. Our immigrant worker laws are written to accommodate "plausible deniability" for the employer. The only time we're likely to see an employer arrested is when real slave conditions are discovered. In this case, regular law enforcement will be on the scene, not Federal immigration.
    It really is a shame.

    If the Democrats want to win the next big election, I'm thinking they would do well to go after this in a big way. They obviously won't because they are nearly now servants to the same business interests as the Republicans always have been. But other than that, I believe it would win a lot of support from people (like myself) who feel the Democrat party has completely abandoned them. Just my opinion, but if the Democrats stood up to this as they should, they could credibly convey a belief that they actually represent middle class and common interests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RVonse View Post
    According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019...ty-separa.aspx

    Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

    As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

    Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.
    We haven't managed to meaningfully address identity theft. This is simply a form of identity theft. Until we come up with a good way of stopping identity theft we should not be trying hard to address illegals this way as it will harm innocents while doing little about the illegals. If you could actually stop illegals from working it might be a good idea but in reality it comes down to them working with documents the IRS will realize are fake or working with documents the IRS will think belong to a legitimate taxpayer and will try to get the tax from the innocent taxpayer. My mother went through that--"you failed to report this income from XYZ corp." "I was not working anywhere, let alone for XYZ corp." "If the tax form is wrong contact your employer and get it fixed." "I never worked for them, I don't know who they are and I can't even find them. Please provide me contact information." "We are not allowed to provide that information. Contact your employer and get it fixed."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RVonse View Post
    According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019...ty-separa.aspx

    Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

    As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

    Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.
    We haven't managed to meaningfully address identity theft. This is simply a form of identity theft. Until we come up with a good way of stopping identity theft we should not be trying hard to address illegals this way as it will harm innocents while doing little about the illegals. If you could actually stop illegals from working it might be a good idea but in reality it comes down to them working with documents the IRS will realize are fake or working with documents the IRS will think belong to a legitimate taxpayer and will try to get the tax from the innocent taxpayer. My mother went through that--"you failed to report this income from XYZ corp." "I was not working anywhere, let alone for XYZ corp." "If the tax form is wrong contact your employer and get it fixed." "I never worked for them, I don't know who they are and I can't even find them. Please provide me contact information." "We are not allowed to provide that information. Contact your employer and get it fixed."
    I havent personally had any issues with identity theft yet thank goodness. But I have heard a lot of advertisements on the radio regarding companies that can protect you from this.

    Which then begs the question. If the private sector has the tevhnology to secure data (for a charge), why does not the government or corporations have access to these same technologies?

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    Background checks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RVonse View Post
    According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019...ty-separa.aspx

    Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

    As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

    Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.
    I don;t doubt there are some "undocumented" immigrants paying into Social Security but this is only half the question. If they are also taking out of Social Security them paying in doesn't help, it hurts.

    The way you accrue SS benefits is by paying in, and the average person only covers 80% of their own social security benefits with what they pay in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RVonse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    Before someone is hired, a SS# has to be on file. Once that number is filed, the employer has to deduct and then remit deductions. The same goes for any Federal and state taxes or unemployment benefit taxes.

    Failure to do this is a crime in itself, and possibly an acknowlegment that the worker had presented illegal documents.

    Don't expect to see any crackdown on employers because of undocumented workers. That's not the way it works. Our immigrant worker laws are written to accommodate "plausible deniability" for the employer. The only time we're likely to see an employer arrested is when real slave conditions are discovered. In this case, regular law enforcement will be on the scene, not Federal immigration.
    It really is a shame.

    If the Democrats want to win the next big election, I'm thinking they would do well to go after this in a big way. They obviously won't because they are nearly now servants to the same business interests as the Republicans always have been. But other than that, I believe it would win a lot of support from people (like myself) who feel the Democrat party has completely abandoned them. Just my opinion, but if the Democrats stood up to this as they should, they could credibly convey a belief that they actually represent middle class and common interests.
    What exactly is the middle class and common interest here? If someone picks tomatoes all day and the tomatoes in my local store arrive fresh and not bruised, what's my objection to having another taxpayer on the roles?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RVonse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzeage View Post
    Before someone is hired, a SS# has to be on file. Once that number is filed, the employer has to deduct and then remit deductions. The same goes for any Federal and state taxes or unemployment benefit taxes.

    Failure to do this is a crime in itself, and possibly an acknowlegment that the worker had presented illegal documents.

    Don't expect to see any crackdown on employers because of undocumented workers. That's not the way it works. Our immigrant worker laws are written to accommodate "plausible deniability" for the employer. The only time we're likely to see an employer arrested is when real slave conditions are discovered. In this case, regular law enforcement will be on the scene, not Federal immigration.
    It really is a shame.

    If the Democrats want to win the next big election, I'm thinking they would do well to go after this in a big way. They obviously won't because they are nearly now servants to the same business interests as the Republicans always have been. But other than that, I believe it would win a lot of support from people (like myself) who feel the Democrat party has completely abandoned them. Just my opinion, but if the Democrats stood up to this as they should, they could credibly convey a belief that they actually represent middle class and common interests.
    What exactly is the middle class and common interest here? If someone picks tomatoes all day and the tomatoes in my local store arrive fresh and not bruised, what's my objection to having another taxpayer on the roles?
    Your objection should be that someone who is even poorer than you is being exploited by corporate farming. That the current laws are being broken and that those who know better are just looking the other way because some politician received bribe money.

    Personally, I believe cheap labor is seriously penny wise and pound foolish and taking the country directly into 3rd world status. But even if you think cheap labor is good for America, then at least change the laws and enforce them without corruption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RVonse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RVonse View Post
    According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019...ty-separa.aspx

    Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

    As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

    Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.
    We haven't managed to meaningfully address identity theft. This is simply a form of identity theft. Until we come up with a good way of stopping identity theft we should not be trying hard to address illegals this way as it will harm innocents while doing little about the illegals. If you could actually stop illegals from working it might be a good idea but in reality it comes down to them working with documents the IRS will realize are fake or working with documents the IRS will think belong to a legitimate taxpayer and will try to get the tax from the innocent taxpayer. My mother went through that--"you failed to report this income from XYZ corp." "I was not working anywhere, let alone for XYZ corp." "If the tax form is wrong contact your employer and get it fixed." "I never worked for them, I don't know who they are and I can't even find them. Please provide me contact information." "We are not allowed to provide that information. Contact your employer and get it fixed."
    I havent personally had any issues with identity theft yet thank goodness. But I have heard a lot of advertisements on the radio regarding companies that can protect you from this.

    Which then begs the question. If the private sector has the tevhnology to secure data (for a charge), why does not the government or corporations have access to these same technologies?
    Those companies do nothing to protect your data. The services they offer are about alerting you to the use of your data (note that you can get pretty much this service for free) and helping you deal with the hassles that result.

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