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Thread: Elizabeth Warrens - Tax and Spend Plan for Medicare for all

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    Senior Member starwater's Avatar
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    Exclamation Elizabeth Warrens - Tax and Spend Plan for Medicare for all

    Sen. Elizabeth Warren said that as president she would tap billionaires and large employers to pay the bulk of $20.5 trillion in new spending over a decade to finance her Medicare for All health-care plan, promising to shield most Americans from higher taxes under the proposal.

    As a small business owner this alarms me. I have thus far support Warren for President, however, this may be a bridge too far. My business health care costs are outrageous and we can barely cover the basic plan with high deductibles with the employees paying for 30%. I haven't delved into her details yet, and I hardly think if she is elected that this would move forward as proposed. The current system needs reform. I'm not sure this is it. It's seems way too much tax and spendy for me. I think Warren needs to move more Center of left.
    Keep messing with 45

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    The CW is that M4A costs more, but many economists say it would be a deflationary event IOW M4A would cost less, not more than our current system.

    Warren has been taking a lot of flack over the issue, since journalists only want to discuss the tax portion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by starwater View Post
    Sen. Elizabeth Warren said that as president she would tap billionaires and large employers to pay the bulk of $20.5 trillion in new spending over a decade to finance her Medicare for All health-care plan, promising to shield most Americans from higher taxes under the proposal.

    As a small business owner this alarms me. I have thus far support Warren for President, however, this may be a bridge too far. My business health care costs are outrageous and we can barely cover the basic plan with high deductibles with the employees paying for 30%. I haven't delved into her details yet...
    Then delve into the details! Better to see what she is proposing than trusting what the Wall Street Journal says she is proposing.

    ...and I hardly think if she is elected that this would move forward as proposed.
    Another reason not to get alarmed.
    The current system needs reform.
    Reform in the sense it needs to be transformed substantially.
    I'm not sure this is it. It's seems way too much tax and spendy for me. I think Warren needs to move more Center of left.
    Too much tax and spend? The alternate is the government doesn't tax and spend and the consumer continues moving through the medical system completely oblivious to what anything costs... and spending more than we'd spend under Warren's plan.

    In general, these huge $xx trillion (over 10 years) forgets to mention that we are looking at $xx+y over the same period of time with the current system which is riddled with more accounting than medical services.

    I don't think we can just toss this on the 0.01%'ers either though. I don't think there is enough dough there. We all use it, we should all pay into it.

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    Veteran Member PyramidHead's Avatar
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    What Warren is proposing here is a Medicare head tax.

    The proposal is as follows:

    Employers will be required to pay an “Employer Medicare Contribution” equal to 98 percent of their per-employee health care costs in the year prior to Medicare for All’s implementation. This will mean that initially some employers pay more than others since that is already the case in the status quo. But over time, each employer’s contribution will be gradually converged to the average Employer Medicare Contribution until every qualifying employer is paying the same amount per employee. Employers with less than 50 employees would be exempt from the Employer Medicare contribution both initially and forever. Independent contractors (and the companies who hire them) will also be exempt from the Employer Medicare contribution both initially and forever.

    What Warren is proposing here, in ordinary fiscal language, is a Medicare Head Tax. This is a departure from the normal Medicare Payroll Tax proposals. The distributive difference between them is that the Medicare Payroll Tax charges a specific percentage of each worker’s earnings, while the Medicare Head Tax charges a specific dollar amount per worker.
    Two graphs to illustrate this. In the first, note how the amount paid per worker is flat under Warren's plan, regardless of the worker's pay. To put it more starkly, the second graph shows that this means lower-paid workers will contribute a larger portion of their pay toward to the fund. That's a regressive way to fund a universal program.




    Finally, this part is worth mentioning:

    Separate from the distributive problems of Warren’s head tax, the two exclusions also make the proposal clearly unworkable and easily gamed. All companies have to do to avoid rather large head tax charges is spin off workers into independent contractor status or spin them off into firms with less than 50 employees that they then contract with for services.
    Since what Warren is proposing here isn't expressed in a % but in a $, it helps create the impression that it's not a tax. It is a tax, though, and not a very future-proof one.

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    Veteran Member KeepTalking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starwater View Post
    Sen. Elizabeth Warren said that as president she would tap billionaires and large employers to pay the bulk of $20.5 trillion in new spending over a decade to finance her Medicare for All health-care plan, promising to shield most Americans from higher taxes under the proposal.

    As a small business owner this alarms me. I have thus far support Warren for President, however, this may be a bridge too far. My business health care costs are outrageous and we can barely cover the basic plan with high deductibles with the employees paying for 30%. I haven't delved into her details yet, and I hardly think if she is elected that this would move forward as proposed. The current system needs reform. I'm not sure this is it. It's seems way too much tax and spendy for me. I think Warren needs to move more Center of left.
    I'm not sure how you became alarmed after having read that article. Here is the very first sentence:
    Sen. Elizabeth Warren said that as president she would tap billionaires and large employers to pay the bulk of $20.5 trillion in new spending over a decade to finance her Medicare for All health-care plan, promising to shield most Americans from higher taxes under the proposal.
    You, as a small business owner, have nothing to fear. In fact, you would likely see savings if you no longer have to provide insurance for your employees. That would even hold true if you do the right thing and increase your employees salary to compensate for not providing that insurance benefit, as you are likely paying fees above the value of that benefit in order to have the benefit managed for you.

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    Veteran Member TV and credit cards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Separate from the distributive problems of Warren’s head tax, the two exclusions also make the proposal clearly unworkable and easily gamed. All companies have to do to avoid rather large head tax charges is spin off workers into independent contractor status or spin them off into firms with less than 50 employees that they then contract with for services.
    Elizabeth Warren hasn't figured this out yet.

    But the long list of tax and healthcare policy changes is seen as standing little chance of passing Congress even if Democrats gain control of both chambers, given the opposition from some moderate members of the party.

    Really? So her plan is nothing more than campaign bullshit?
    Dwight

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    Stinks.

    It's the usual garbage of tax the rich.

    In addition there's the problem that it provides a huge incentive to outsourcing.

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    Loony Running The Asylum ZiprHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Stinks.

    It's the usual garbage of tax the rich.

    In addition there's the problem that it provides a huge incentive to outsourcing.
    Businesses will cheat so we should leave them alone.
    ITMFA

    When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy.

    You submit to tyranny when you renounce truth. - Timothy Snyder

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    Veteran Member Arctish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TV and credit cards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PyramidHead View Post
    Separate from the distributive problems of Warren’s head tax, the two exclusions also make the proposal clearly unworkable and easily gamed. All companies have to do to avoid rather large head tax charges is spin off workers into independent contractor status or spin them off into firms with less than 50 employees that they then contract with for services.
    Elizabeth Warren hasn't figured this out yet.

    But the long list of tax and healthcare policy changes is seen as standing little chance of passing Congress even if Democrats gain control of both chambers, given the opposition from some moderate members of the party.

    Really? So her plan is nothing more than campaign bullshit?
    Presidents don't rule by fiat. They provide a framework and direction for Congress and the country.

    Warren's Plan won't be implemented as is. It will be modified and changed as it passes through the House of Representatives and the Senate in whatever way necessary to garner sufficient support for it to reach the President's desk and be signed into law.

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    It’s admirable how generous she is with other peoples’ money.

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