View Poll Results: In your personal opinion, do you feel that "If I am immortal, then I will soon die" is val

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  • Yes, it is valid

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Thread: If I am immortal, then I will soon die

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    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    If I am immortal, then I will soon die

    In your personal opinion, do you feel that the following implication is valid or invalid?

    And either way, can you try to explain why?

    If I am immortal, then I will soon die
    Thank you to vote before posting any comment.
    EB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post
    In your personal opinion, do you feel that the following implication is valid or invalid?

    And either way, can you try to explain why?

    If I am immortal, then I will soon die
    Thank you to vote before posting any comment.
    EB
    Are you serious or are you just being silly? Do you understand the logic fallacy of mutual exclusion? Premise and conclusion are mutually exclusive.

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    I can't see any way for it to be valid. Maybe it's a trick question.

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    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    I can't see any way for it to be valid.
    Thanks for your comment and your vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Maybe it's a trick question.
    ???

    "In your personal opinion, do you feel that the following implication is valid or invalid?" How could that be a trick question?!

    Sometimes I wonder about you.

    It's not me who came up with this one but it's a good one I think.

    There is no trick. As I understand it, we assess the validity of an argument by assuming the premise true, even whenever we happen to think it isn't true.

    However, to assess whether the conclusion is necessarily true given the premise, we also need to assume the sense of the words used in the argument. Since no definition is provided by the premises of the argument, we assume the most proximate definition applies by default, that is the definition we routinely assume in all our everyday conversations, which, broadly, are those given in dictionaries. Where could that go wrong?

    Three straight votes for "not valid", clearly without hesitation.Thanks to voters.

    I certainly expected this result and it seems fine to me.

    Let's see if anyone will dissent with this expression of your intuition.
    EB

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Personal opinion may not be logical. Its possible that an immortal may feel that they are going to die, but their feeling of impending death has no bearing on their actual condition, that condition being their state of immortality. Which, by definition, means they cannot die.

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    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Personal opinion may not be logical. Its possible that an immortal may feel that they are going to die, but their feeling of impending death has no bearing on their actual condition, that condition being their state of immortality. Which, by definition, means they cannot die.
    I asked your personal opinion on the validity of the argument, not on the truth of the conclusion.
    EB

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    Mazzie Daius fromderinside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post

    Let's see if anyone will dissent with this expression of your intuition.
    EB
    So how does personal opinion rise or descend to intuition? Why paint something that is already white? Really. What is the value of taking the very clear statement of one's personal opinion as an intuition? Is it that by so doing makes it more meaningful somehow? More philosophical?

    Word cabbage does not imply word salad. That's nowhere near the leap made by calling one's stated personal opinion an intuition.

    Now let''s take the ideas stated above to get at whether being immortal in any way implies one will die leaving aside whether that state will be near it time or far in time which already means there are implied contexts in the so called logical statement.

    A lot of construction needs be presented before one can judge the validity of the statement. Shorthand is to just say it is invalid because outcome is unsupported in the plain text in the statement. then the judge painting other's replies as intuitions suggests a 'meaning' presumed by all underlying analysis of the statement. Logic is easy when one presents things clearly. Logic is stupid - invalid is one way to put it - when one covers a statement with implications presumed to exist in readers.

    Further, any presumption that a statement stated is presumed true is false especially if the mental gymnastics required to get there are not everyday operations. How can the declaration of immortality as one's state of existence necessarily join with one that one's state ends soon (because?) one necessarily builds up a set of presumptions, presumed natural to one about one. Those presumptions need be stated and justified.

    It's clear that your philosophy is not for those who look at the world with evidence based biases. Personal Opinion: Intuition, immortal-die all obviously eruptions of one necessarily not rational, probably self centered, maybe even narcissistic.

    You jump I jump.
    Last edited by fromderinside; 11-09-2019 at 01:04 PM.

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    Contributor DBT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speakpigeon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Personal opinion may not be logical. Its possible that an immortal may feel that they are going to die, but their feeling of impending death has no bearing on their actual condition, that condition being their state of immortality. Which, by definition, means they cannot die.
    I asked your personal opinion on the validity of the argument, not on the truth of the conclusion.
    EB
    The two are not mutually exclusive. I did both.

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    Contributor Speakpigeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromderinside View Post
    So how does personal opinion rise (...)
    I read it all.
    EB

    EDIT
    Thanks for casting your vote.

    Intuition
    1. The faculty of knowing or understanding something without reasoning or proof.
    Nobody explained the reasoning motivating their votes, so it is fair to assume it is intuition.

    And if not, same thing, since at some point whatever we think inevitably comes down to intuition.

  10. Top | #10
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    It is invalid as it is a non-sequitur, or a nonsense statement, comparable to "If I am a Frenchman, then I will soon be a Croat."

    And this is a great waste of time as nothing in this universe is immortal, as far as we know at present. Even matter 'dies' when it is changed to energy, and energy 'dies' when it changes to matter.

    But maybe Dark Matter and Dark Energy are immortal? Oh. wait, they were "created" by us humans to balance our puny human mathematical equations were they not? They may not exist at all.
    Last edited by 4321lynx; 11-09-2019 at 07:08 PM.

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