Page 11 of 13 FirstFirst ... 910111213 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 129

Thread: Why must theists prove god exists?

  1. Top | #101
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,890
    Rep Power
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC

    WUT???
    I don't "insist" that some must be punished.
    I hope no one is punished.
    That's exactly the sentiment of that verse - God doesn't want to have to send anyone to hell.
    I also assert it is mainstream Christian theology that if you are in heaven, you are not holding a grudge against a repentant fellow inhabitant of heaven who had previously "sinned against you".

    If you want to put words in my mouth - use the quote function.

    God is not under any compulsion from anyone.

    Except Himself.

    If He feels He must punish unrepentant sinners that is what will happen.
    And I wouldn't worship any god who failed to enforce what is right and just.
    If he "feels he must punish someone" then he does not desire to save them. We're not talking about two different people here, or a victim of multiple personalities disorder. Either he desires to save us all, or he does not. And if he does, then we will be. There is no room for an eternal hell in the bosom of a loving and all-powerful god.

    You are currently worshiping a god who fails to enforce what is right and just.
    Only in your imagination. (Your imagination about me and/or God)

    For some, there is just punishment, for others forgiveness.
    Some don't want forgiveness. Some don't believe in sin.

    Those forgiven face no penalty at all for hurting others,
    You don't know that.

    while others are tortured in agony with no hope of release because they told a lie once, or stole a stapler from the office supply closet.
    You don't know this either.
    How about you let God decide what and whether punishment is just.
    You should brush up on scripture's explanation of God's judgement - He weighs us and our actions in the balance. The highly self-righteous get judged by the stricter standard which they themselves apply.

    I quite agree that one should not worship an unjust God.
    Good.
    Do you think God is right and just to forgive repentant sinners hanging on the Cross next to Jesus? Do you think the people at Nineveh were repenting for having stolen a paper clip from the office stationery cabinet?

    Luke 15:7
    "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."

  2. Top | #102
    Cyborg with a Tiara
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Recluse
    Posts
    8,170
    Archived
    9,040
    Total Posts
    17,210
    Rep Power
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Why would an atheist bring it up?
    Most American college students have an obligatory class as part of their general education pattern, Philosophy 100 or some similar designation, in which a (usually atheist) professor tries to disprove theism for a semester. It's called introduction to philosophy, but god's existence is nearly always a central topic.

    citation?
    What makes you say, “most”?

    Mine wasn’t. Mine was a prof trying to get us to all see a god in the terrible frightening black void of the universe.

  3. Top | #103
    Cyborg with a Tiara
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Recluse
    Posts
    8,170
    Archived
    9,040
    Total Posts
    17,210
    Rep Power
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by Learner View Post
    From the perspective where a lot of Christians believe in the Judgement and Hell....

    We are quite concerned for those around us - obviously this would undoubtedly include our own loved ones, being really concerned, which can not be helped! There IS a reason - quite strongly in this regard why we think its neccessary to preach the Gospel as according to the teachings and concept taken from Jesus, despite how arrogant it may seem to atheists. Imo, like many believers, we don't see many atheists as enemies (as often portrayed) but rather as some of the those...who are among the lost sheep.
    Good News - Jesus told you quite plainly that once you are in heaven you will not care, even a tiny bit, for those who didn’t make it. “There will be no sadness or suffering in heaven.” So you dont need to be concerned now, if god’s already told you that you won’t be concerned later.

  4. Top | #104
    Cyborg with a Tiara
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Recluse
    Posts
    8,170
    Archived
    9,040
    Total Posts
    17,210
    Rep Power
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Elixir View Post
    The dogma of eternal torture is ridiculous on the face of it, being in direct contradiction of any benevolent omni-being. Even most humans are better than that - the hells they construct are at least nominally "corrections facilities", not torture chambers.
    This is one of my biggest beefs with Christianity.
    I wouldn't worship any god who allowed unrepentant rapists and their victims spend eternity in the same place. But I can see why it would feel like torture for a rapist to know that they could never rape anyone ever again.
    But wait - your god said the rape victim has to MARRY the rapist and continue to be raped for the rest of her life. Since you don’t care about her on earth, why would we think you’d care about her in heaven?

  5. Top | #105
    Contributor skepticalbip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Searching for reality along the long and winding road
    Posts
    5,230
    Archived
    12,976
    Total Posts
    18,206
    Rep Power
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    Why would an atheist bring it up?
    Most American college students have an obligatory class as part of their general education pattern, Philosophy 100 or some similar designation, in which a (usually atheist) professor tries to disprove theism for a semester. It's called introduction to philosophy, but god's existence is nearly always a central topic.

    citation?
    What makes you say, “most”?

    Mine wasn’t. Mine was a prof trying to get us to all see a god in the terrible frightening black void of the universe.
    It has been quite a while since I studied philosophy but, by my recollection, my university must have been an outlier. My first philosophy course was primarily a study of Aristotelian logic, Venn diagrams, and the arguments of early Greek philosophers like Plato. Following courses generally chronologically examined later philosophical arguments. It wasn't until the third course (I think) and we worked up to Thomas Aquinas that we covered any arguments about the existence of god.

  6. Top | #106
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,890
    Rep Power
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post

    I wouldn't worship any god who allowed unrepentant rapists and their victims spend eternity in the same place. But I can see why it would feel like torture for a rapist to know that they could never rape anyone ever again.
    But wait - your god said the rape victim has to MARRY the rapist and continue to be raped for the rest of her life.
    No. The bible does NOT say the victim HAS to marry the rapist. It says the rapist has to make an offer to marry by way of an offer to her father of 50 shekels - the equivalent of ~ 5 years wages. If not accepted then God (the bible) sanctioned the death penalty for rape. That's right. The death penalty.

    Since you don’t care about her on earth...
    WTF?
    Did you just accuse me of not caring about rape victims?

    ...why would we think you’d care about her in heaven?
    I'm wondering...is Rhea accusing me - you Lion IRC, you don't care - or accusing you (plural) biblical theists as a group.
    Nope. I know exactly who she is accusing of misogynistic rape apologetics.
    Bye.

  7. Top | #107
    Contributor DBT's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    ɹǝpunuʍop puɐן
    Posts
    9,367
    Archived
    17,906
    Total Posts
    27,273
    Rep Power
    72
    It's not unconditional forgiveness if forgiveness entails punishment....which is a form of judicial retribution or punishment.

  8. Top | #108
    Formerly Joedad
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    PA USA
    Posts
    5,654
    Archived
    5,039
    Total Posts
    10,693
    Rep Power
    75
    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    It's not unconditional forgiveness if forgiveness entails punishment....which is a form of judicial retribution or punishment.
    The people I knew who thought heaven was real were interested in two things: 1) escaping the unpleasantness of their lives, 2) enacting punishment on others. Their fantasy afterlife was where everything was evened up - at least according to their childish thinking and limited experiences. Heaven was a personal reward and hell was how you punished people. It always seemed to me such folk were simply engaging in very Rudimentary Problem Solving 101.

    With a bit more thought they might have one day come to the understanding that embracing these infantile religious fantasies was actually the problem, not a solution. The additional problem, obviously, was that in that insular religious environment no one was actually trying to get them to grow mentally or actually do any problem solving or brainstorming. Doing so would have threatened the organization and the money flow. This is why religion is basically an evil. Anything that religion incorporates that we see as decent is basic human love and dependence on each other. But this is certainly not religion's main message, it only uses it to deceive.

    Theists are constantly trying to reconcile religious hate with humanist love, at least the intelligent ones still trying to solve problems. Unable to do this they have to cling to something, which is why they come ringing our doorbells. They're not doing it for us, but for themselves, they're conflicted obviously.

  9. Top | #109
    Contributor
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    5,328
    Rep Power
    14
    All of Christianity tuns on the story of the supernatural resurrection and the belief it is true. The promise of eternal life.

    Without that there is no point to Christianity.

  10. Top | #110
    Cyborg with a Tiara
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Recluse
    Posts
    8,170
    Archived
    9,040
    Total Posts
    17,210
    Rep Power
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea
    But wait - your god said the rape victim has to MARRY the rapist and continue to be raped for the rest of her life.
    No. The bible does NOT say the victim HAS to marry the rapist. It says the rapist has to make an offer to marry by way of an offer to her father of 50 shekels - the equivalent of ~ 5 years wages. If not accepted then God (the bible) sanctioned the death penalty for rape. That's right. The death penalty.
    I love the way you take the case of the raped woman, and without any regard whatsoever to her feelings, you cheer the transaction that the rapist makes with her father. A man whose male ego is boosted by his “damaged” daughter geting “undamaged” by marriage and 50 shekels.



    And not once did you pause to think or care about her thought on the matter.


    Since you don’t care about her on earth...
    WTF?
    Did you just accuse me of not caring about rape victims?


    No, you just exhibited it.
    You just trotted out the idea that the father can agree to sell his daughter to a rapist.
    You self-selected for the group, “Does Not Care About Rape Victims.”



    ...why would we think you’d care about her in heaven?
    I'm wondering...is Rhea accusing me - you Lion IRC, you don't care - or accusing you (plural) biblical theists as a group.
    Nope. I know exactly who she is accusing of misogynistic rape apologetics.
    Anyone who loves a book that includes that passage would qualify. Don’t flatter yourself.

    Bye.
    I can understand your desire to run from a conversation that points out how brutally cruel is the book that you worship.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •