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Thread: "Great Mother" acceptable but no deity isn't - recent House-opening prayer

  1. Top | #41
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Nut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    When Christian France fights Christian England, it must be because of religion.

    When communist/Marxist despots enforce State-sponsored atheism at the barrel of a gun that's obviously nothing to do with religion.

    I know "Onward Christian Soldier"... but how does the Atheist one go?
    "Debout! les damnés de la terre!
    Debout! les forçats de la faim!"....

  2. Top | #42
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Random Person View Post

    History doesn't support your assertion. Remember Mao and Stalin's anti religious regimes? Millions of their own citizens murdered.
    I do not consider either of them atheist. Rather, both were subscribers to the religion of communism. To me, the fundamental characteristic of a religion is a set of core beliefs that are taken on faith and no challenge is permitted. Deities are not required (Buddhism is certainly a religion and has no deity--the Buddha is an ideal towards which you strive, he is not a god.)
    Ah, then there have never been any religious massacres attributable to major faiths. I mean if we're playing shell games, there's always something to shift blame to. The Nazis weren't Christians, they were the "religion of fascism". Thr Crusades weren't about Christianity they were because of the "religion of papism". The Irish don't kill Catholics or Protestants, it's the "religion of nativism" vs the "religion of imperialism". What a handy rhetorical device you've discovered!
    No. Nice try, but no.
    Mao and Stalin were killing, not in the name of atheism, but in the name of consolidating their power.
    They never said 'atheism wants me to do this.'
    Doesn't quite work as an mirrored device for people who really did insist that God wanted them to take the holy hands, or stamp out heresy.

    And "the religion of papism" IS a major faith, so you gain nothing by the exercise, either.

  3. Top | #43
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Nut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    When Christian France fights Christian England, it must be because of religion.

    When communist/Marxist despots enforce State-sponsored atheism at the barrel of a gun that's obviously nothing to do with religion.

    I know "Onward Christian Soldier"... but how does the Atheist one go?
    "Debout! les damnés de la terre!
    Debout! les forçats de la faim!"....
    "...85 bottles of beer on the wall, 85 bottles of beer..."

  4. Top | #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Random Person View Post

    History doesn't support your assertion. Remember Mao and Stalin's anti religious regimes? Millions of their own citizens murdered.
    I do not consider either of them atheist. Rather, both were subscribers to the religion of communism. To me, the fundamental characteristic of a religion is a set of core beliefs that are taken on faith and no challenge is permitted. Deities are not required (Buddhism is certainly a religion and has no deity--the Buddha is an ideal towards which you strive, he is not a god.)
    Ah, then there have never been any religious massacres attributable to major faiths. I mean if we're playing shell games, there's always something to shift blame to. The Nazis weren't Christians, they were the "religion of fascism". Thr Crusades weren't about Christianity they were because of the "religion of papism". The Irish don't kill Catholics or Protestants, it's the "religion of nativism" vs the "religion of imperialism". What a handy rhetorical device you've discovered!
    Where are the core faiths of the "religions" you cite?

  5. Top | #45
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post

    Ah, then there have never been any religious massacres attributable to major faiths. I mean if we're playing shell games, there's always something to shift blame to. The Nazis weren't Christians, they were the "religion of fascism". Thr Crusades weren't about Christianity they were because of the "religion of papism". The Irish don't kill Catholics or Protestants, it's the "religion of nativism" vs the "religion of imperialism". What a handy rhetorical device you've discovered!
    Where are the core faiths of the "religions" you cite?
    Well, that's the beauty of your method. You just call something "the religion of communism", and now it is a religious tradition.

  6. Top | #46
    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    I must note that if one believes that the religion business is a Bad Thing, then one can feel justified in persecuting religion. Thus opposition to religion must get at least some of the blame for persecutions of religion. Opposition like believing that religion is the moral equivalent of drug addiction, for instance.

  7. Top | #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post

    Ah, then there have never been any religious massacres attributable to major faiths. I mean if we're playing shell games, there's always something to shift blame to. The Nazis weren't Christians, they were the "religion of fascism". Thr Crusades weren't about Christianity they were because of the "religion of papism". The Irish don't kill Catholics or Protestants, it's the "religion of nativism" vs the "religion of imperialism". What a handy rhetorical device you've discovered!
    Where are the core faiths of the "religions" you cite?
    Well, that's the beauty of your method. You just call something "the religion of communism", and now it is a religious tradition.
    But communism does have a core faith: That people will work at least as well when working for the group as when working for themselves. There's zero evidence for this and plenty against, but it's at the heart of communism. Furthermore, the notion that removing competition is beneficial. Yes, it saves wasted effort--but in practice it's a major killer of innovation.

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    Administrator lpetrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Nut View Post
    I know "Onward Christian Soldier"... but how does the Atheist one go?
    "Debout! les damnés de la terre!
    Debout! les forçats de la faim!"....
    That's The Internationale That article gives the original French version and several translations. Lyrics: The International (marxists.org) also has some versions.

  9. Top | #49
    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Nut View Post
    I know "Onward Christian Soldier"... but how does the Atheist one go?
    "Debout! les damnés de la terre!
    Debout! les forçats de la faim!"....
    That's The Internationale That article gives the original French version and several translations. Lyrics: The International (marxists.org) also has some versions.
    Yes, I know... It was a joke...

    Also, holy thread necro, Batman!

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