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Thread: "Great Mother" acceptable but no deity isn't - recent House-opening prayer

  1. Top | #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Why cant ppl pray on govt property?
    Are Muslim prayer rooms at US govt owned airports a problem for atheists?
    The Orlando airport spent $350,000 on their Muslim prayer room.
    Nobody's saying you can't pray on government property.

    What's wrong is giving official status to the prayers.

    Simple test: How would you feel if they opened the session with a Satanic prayer? Equal treatment--if something "Christian" is ok then the same thing "Satanic" is also ok.

  2. Top | #12
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Simple test: How would you feel if they opened the session with a Satanic prayer? Equal treatment--if something "Christian" is ok then the same thing "Satanic" is also ok.
    Quote Originally Posted by lpetrich View Post
    Would you like something like "God, I beg of you, strike with lightning every member of every other party"?
    Two responses to the issue.
    Both asking me if I think something would be OK. Both validating democracy. Majority rule.
    You're both literally asking me if I would agree. Why?

    If enough Lion IRC's all agree to allow prayer in these situations what then?
    Banning ALL religions is a defacto enforcement of atheism - by the government.

  3. Top | #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Banning ALL religions is a defacto enforcement of atheism - by the government.
    No one is banning anyone's religion.

  4. Top | #14
    Elder Contributor Keith&Co.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.G.G. Moogly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Banning ALL religions is a defacto enforcement of atheism - by the government.
    No one is banning anyone's religion.
    Exactly.
    No official-led prayer =/= banning religion.

    Any student can (privately) pray to any god for a snow day before the math exam.
    Any teacher can (privately) pray to any god for a fire alarm during professional development.
    Any coach can pray (privately) for divine retribution against any ref for a call against their team.
    Any senator can pray (on national television) for God to end abortion.

    Their religious freedoms are or would be completely unaffected by not having grace said with regularity by one or more religious authorities in any official capacity.

  5. Top | #15
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Banning prayer = banning religion.

    Moreover, if 'secular' invocations by Dan Barker are the only acceptable form of ritual officially permitted, that's State-sponsored atheism.

  6. Top | #16
    Intergalactic Villainess Angry Floof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Banning prayer = banning religion.

    Moreover, if 'secular' invocations by Dan Barker are the only acceptable form of ritual officially permitted, that's State-sponsored atheism.
    Banning from official government proceedings isn't banning you from doing anything. It doesn't affect you at all, unless your cult is the social dominance variety that insists that all of society fall under its doctrines. But that is a hypocrisy that religious mentality cannot face. They're not interested in anything remotely like freedom of religion. Followers of social dominance cults don't even know what that means.
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  7. Top | #17
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Isn't the Freedom From Religion Foundation working to achieve 'social dominance' for atheism?

  8. Top | #18
    Intergalactic Villainess Angry Floof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Isn't the Freedom From Religion Foundation working to achieve 'social dominance' for atheism?
    If you've never experienced any other mental framework than us vs. them fight for dominance, how would you recognize anything else? If you've never valued humane principles and your world is ruled by ideological identity first and foremost, how would you recognize when someone does value principles over identity?
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  9. Top | #19
    Veteran Member Lion IRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Floof View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post
    Isn't the Freedom From Religion Foundation working to achieve 'social dominance' for atheism?
    If you've never experienced any other mental framework than us vs. them fight for dominance, how would you recognize anything else?
    WUT?
    If you've never tasted anything other than vanilla ice cream how would you know whether you were eating broccoli????

    Are you seriously suggesting that atheists don't do the politics of in-group / out-group social identity bias?


    If you've never valued humane principles and your world is ruled by ideological identity first and foremost, how would you recognize when someone does value principles over identity?
    This is just incoherent and circular.

    ...if you put your ideological identity as somoneone who values humane principles first and foremost how will you recognise someone else who puts their ideological identity as a person who values their humane principles first and foremost.

    Gobbledygook

  10. Top | #20
    Intergalactic Villainess Angry Floof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion IRC View Post

    WUT?
    If you've never tasted anything other than vanilla ice cream how would you know whether you were eating broccoli????

    Are you seriously suggesting that atheists don't do the politics of in-group / out-group social identity bias?


    If you've never valued humane principles and your world is ruled by ideological identity first and foremost, how would you recognize when someone does value principles over identity?
    This is just incoherent and circular.

    ...if you put your ideological identity as somoneone who values humane principles first and foremost how will you recognise someone else who puts their ideological identity as a person who values their humane principles first and foremost.

    Gobbledygook
    Yes, I would expect that talking about humane values vs. tribal identities would be gobbledegook to you.
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