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Thread: Should Trans-Women Be Allowed In Women's Sports? NO!

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    Should Trans-Women Be Allowed In Women's Sports? NO!

    Let's talk about trans women in sports. Should they be allowed? I say no because it's making a mockery of biological women.

    Let me give you guys an example, (especially the people who advocate for trans rights):

    Suppose a 17 year old Arnold Schwarzenegger identified as a woman and he was comfortable with his body and did not want to transition using hormones or anything. This is a view of the trans rights advocates: "If you say you're a woman, you're a woman. No questions asked.")

    Would it be fair for Arnold to enter women's weightlifting and dominate 1st place in everything? Of course not. Yet, this is what trans rights advocates want. Disgusting things like this.

    Do you guys seriously believe that if Arnold did this, you would all of a sudden start calling him a woman and the greatest women's weight lifter in history?

    Can any of you guys logically explain why muscular 14-18 year old high school men should be allowed in women's sports to dominate just because they say, "I'm a woman!?"

    Or think about if LeBron James identified as a woman today and said he was going to the WNBA, is that fair? Why or why not? If you say it's not fair, you're going against your beliefs. If you say it is fair, you're delusional. How the hell do trans rights advocates get out of this pickle?!?!?

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    So, OP's bullshit aside...

    There really should be more of a discussion about how AND WHY we divide sports the way we do. Because I think that dividing them by gender is wrong.

    There are absolutely two very different populations of people for which competing in a common field is nonsensical, but this is not as simple as man/woman.

    This division in nature, the real difference, is testosterone exposure. It can be tested for. It can even in many cases be assumed. But this is the REAL against which gender is used as proxy.

    So, should testosterone-exposed people be allowed to play in testosterone-exposed sports leagues? No. They should not.

    Should we name and separate and regulate these on the basis of gender instead of testosterone exposure? No, we should not.

    Now cue the anti-trans whinefest completely ignoring this reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    So, OP's bullshit aside...

    There really should be more of a discussion about how AND WHY we divide sports the way we do. Because I think that dividing them by gender is wrong.

    There are absolutely two very different populations of people for which competing in a common field is nonsensical, but this is not as simple as man/woman.

    This division in nature, the real difference, is testosterone exposure. It can be tested for. It can even in many cases be assumed. But this is the REAL against which gender is used as proxy.

    So, should testosterone-exposed people be allowed to play in testosterone-exposed sports leagues? No. They should not.

    Should we name and separate and regulate these on the basis of gender instead of testosterone exposure? No, we should not.

    Now cue the anti-trans whinefest completely ignoring this reality.
    If sports were not separated by gender, the men would always win. Put the females into the NBA, none would make the team. Put the males in the WNBA, all the females would lose their spots.

    There have even been cases of a biological women being disqualified because her testosterone level was actually higher than the limit they have for trans-women! Talk about insanity!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhyn View Post
    So, OP's bullshit aside...

    There really should be more of a discussion about how AND WHY we divide sports the way we do. Because I think that dividing them by gender is wrong.

    There are absolutely two very different populations of people for which competing in a common field is nonsensical, but this is not as simple as man/woman.

    This division in nature, the real difference, is testosterone exposure. It can be tested for. It can even in many cases be assumed. But this is the REAL against which gender is used as proxy.
    No. Testosterone exposure is only part of it. If you have gone through a male puberty you have an advantage, created by nature, that no amount of testosterone blockers can undo.

    We separate sports by sex in the first place because if, at the elite level, women had to compete against men, women would always lose. This is obvious in most sports, but I think it would be true even for subjectively-judged sports like figure skating. Men's figure skating routines currently have harder and more complex elements than women's.

    However, although sport used to be separated by sex, it is increasingly separated by gender, as the OP points out. At elite and semi-professional level, evidence of transition is required. But at other levels, mere identification is the only requirement.

    But even with the requirement of evidence of transition and rules around it, cis women are, basically, fucked. Trans women--biological men--have a natural advantage and this remains even after they block their own testosterone.

    But the idea that 'trans women are women' is now so beyond polite discourse to question, it is verboten to point the unfairness to cis women out. It's why Rachel McKinnon feels free to call cis women 'losers'. Fallon Fox destroyed Tamikka Brents in MMA fighting. Even one area that feminists are probably happy to leave to the men - heavy lifting - didn't stop Laurel Hubbard taking gold for weightlifting.

    Competing in a sport in the gender you identify as is not a human right.

    This is a battle cis women are going to need to fight. (No cis elite male athlete need fear a trans man unfairly competing against him). I wish them luck.

    EDIT: I don't know if Jarhyn was talking about testosterone exposure in utero, which includes the exposure of XX females to high amounts of male hormone in cases of congenital adrenal hyperplasia, or something else.

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    I used to think the evil “patriarchy” was silly feminist nonsense. Then biological men and boys began competing and winning in women’s sport and going into female restrooms to watch girls undress. The patriarchy is powerful.

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    The Kiwi Farms consensus is that it is mostly the AGP's (autogynephiles) that are a menace to women and not the HSTS's (homosexual transsexuals).

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    The problem with testosterone exposure as your yardstick is how do you measure it? You can measure current testosterone levels but how do you measure what they were last year? Or 10 years ago?

    I don't believe there is any fair solution here as the only right answer (they compete against other trans people) doesn't have enough athletes.

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    The only two opinions that should have merit in this argument should be

    a)the athletes participating and
    b)(because this is just how the fucking world works nowadays) the sponsors of the sport.

    Someone who believes hateful bullshit like being transgender is a sickness that can eradicated through eugenics should be disqualified from the discussion.

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    You make good points. We should allow trans-age athletes to compete in the age group which they identify. The transphobia must stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patooka View Post
    The only two opinions that should have merit in this argument should be

    a)the athletes participating and
    b)(because this is just how the fucking world works nowadays) the sponsors of the sport.

    Someone who believes hateful bullshit like being transgender is a sickness that can eradicated through eugenics should be disqualified from the discussion.
    Transgender people commit suicide at an alarming rate. If we could stop transgender from happening, that would be a good thing. In the same way it would be a good thing if we can stop Down syndrome form happening. You wouldn't call me sick for thinking that could be stopped, right?

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