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    Dogs

    I meet a lot of people who own and love dogs that are......genetic experiments gone horribly awry.

    They are bred to be compact, maintain puppy features for cuteness, and back-crossed to stabilize the breed (that is, inbred) - at the whims of breeders/owners with little to no thought given to the animals well being, unless of course it is so bad that is becomes a burden to the human.

    I dunno, I know dogs are cool because they love a person no matter how much of an ass they are, but the whole things seems gross.

    Anyone feel sorry for dogs and that they made a mistake befriending humans?

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    Sapere aude Politesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
    I meet a lot of people who own and love dogs that are......genetic experiments gone horribly awry.

    They are bred to be compact, maintain puppy features for cuteness, and back-crossed to stabilize the breed (that is, inbred) - at the whims of breeders/owners with little to no thought given to the animals well being, unless of course it is so bad that is becomes a burden to the human.

    I dunno, I know dogs are cool because they love a person no matter how much of an ass they are, but the whole things seems gross.

    Anyone feel sorry for dogs and that they made a mistake befriending humans?
    One of the few species whose relationship with humans caused them to prosper and expand in numbers rather than driving them into marginality or extinction.

    But your observations are also fair. We're dangerous friends.

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    Content Thief Elixir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
    I meet a lot of people who own and love dogs that are......genetic experiments gone horribly awry.

    They are bred to be compact, maintain puppy features for cuteness, and back-crossed to stabilize the breed (that is, inbred) - at the whims of breeders/owners with little to no thought given to the animals well being, unless of course it is so bad that is becomes a burden to the human.

    I dunno, I know dogs are cool because they love a person no matter how much of an ass they are, but the whole things seems gross.

    Anyone feel sorry for dogs and that they made a mistake befriending humans?
    Yes.
    And in spite of myself I can't help succumbing on sight to any golden retriever. Or lab. Or pretty much any other dog - or wolf, though I've only been up close and personal to a few of them. Just enough to know that dogs are frail and harmless by comparison. Goldens have hip and leg problems, boxers have respiratory issues... most all "breeds" have issues. And yes I do feel sorry for them for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
    I meet a lot of people who own and love dogs that are......genetic experiments gone horribly awry.

    They are bred to be compact, maintain puppy features for cuteness, and back-crossed to stabilize the breed (that is, inbred) - at the whims of breeders/owners with little to no thought given to the animals well being, unless of course it is so bad that is becomes a burden to the human.

    I dunno, I know dogs are cool because they love a person no matter how much of an ass they are, but the whole things seems gross.

    Anyone feel sorry for dogs and that they made a mistake befriending humans?
    One of the few species whose relationship with humans caused them to prosper and expand in numbers rather than driving them into marginality or extinction.

    But your observations are also fair. We're dangerous friends.
    I think the height of that relationship was back when we roamed great expanses hunting in groups in concert with our dogs.

    Dogs seem so out of place now, in urban society especially. I see them stuffed into a hatchback bombing down the freeway, or labs locked in a cage in an apartment for hours - or just bred so small that they are a mere fashion accessory.

    Undone by their own loyalty.

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    Almost forgot - shaming dogs on Twitter is a thing

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Politesse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
    I meet a lot of people who own and love dogs that are......genetic experiments gone horribly awry.

    They are bred to be compact, maintain puppy features for cuteness, and back-crossed to stabilize the breed (that is, inbred) - at the whims of breeders/owners with little to no thought given to the animals well being, unless of course it is so bad that is becomes a burden to the human.

    I dunno, I know dogs are cool because they love a person no matter how much of an ass they are, but the whole things seems gross.

    Anyone feel sorry for dogs and that they made a mistake befriending humans?
    One of the few species whose relationship with humans caused them to prosper and expand in numbers rather than driving them into marginality or extinction.

    But your observations are also fair. We're dangerous friends.
    I think the height of that relationship was back when we roamed great expanses hunting in groups in concert with our dogs.

    Dogs seem so out of place now, in urban society especially. I see them stuffed into a hatchback bombing down the freeway, or labs locked in a cage in an apartment for hours - or just bred so small that they are a mere fashion accessory.

    Undone by their own loyalty.
    agreed. (I'm also originally from Western Canada)

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    It's true that some of the breeds created by humans are very unfortunate. The French Bulldog is one example but there are many others. On the other hand, the chihuahua is believed to be the offspring of one of the earliest dog types, but it's been used to create some small breeds that suffer from what breeders have done to them.

    But, y'all probably know that dogs weren't created by humans interfering with wolves. Dogs evolved to become part of the human pack. They are related to wolves like we are related to apes, you could say. Mostly the same genes but very different in other ways. It's breeders who later did the damage. Early dogs just evolved along with us. It would probably have been better if humans had just let dogs be dogs, instead of changing them to suit us.

    I've read at least 5 or 6 books written by scientists who have studied the evolution of dogs. It's very interesting to learn how dogs and humans became part of a pack. We fed the more friendly wolves and they took advantage of this, to make it very simple. Dogs are loving creatures who usually prefer their human companions to their dog friends. One of my dogs is a rescue, who was living on the streets. She's a mixed breed, but like all or most small dogs, she has some chichi in her. Chihuahuas are tough, fearless little dogs, for the most part. It would have been better if dog breeding had not gotten so crazy over the years. Plus inbreeding is a huge problem when it comes to pure bred dogs. I'm glad that none of my former purebreds were show dog quality. All of my dogs lived long lives except for one who died of heart disease at age 11. Toy fox terriers probably were bred to be too small as very tiny dogs have a tendency to develop heart disease.

    My other dog is a Brussel's Griffon, an extremely loving breed. But the breed was developed in the 1600s and were originally used to get rid of barn rats. So, it's not like it's a modern thing. And, Zoie has always been very healthy, but statistically mixed breed females are the healthiest, most long lived of dogs. So, from now on, "rescue is my favorite breed". Imo, female dogs are easier to live with than male dogs.

    Having said all that, it's disgusting how some people neglect, mistreat or abandon these wonderful animals. Most just want to enjoy a pleasant home with their human families. Provide them with love and a good diet and they will be your most loyal, protective companions. Of course, some are messed up and aggressive, just like humans are. They belong inside, sleeping beside you, eating delicious food and provided with good medical care. But, just like humans, not all dogs get to experience that high quality of life. I find that very sad.

  8. Top | #8
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    This piece (http://www.startribune.com/dogs-huma...est/565557152/] suggests
    B
    Belyaev had a startling hypothesis, which was that all of the characteristics of dogs evolved from one feature: docility.

    At some point in ancient history, Belyaev speculated, relatively docile wolves mated with one another. Their offspring became more docile still, and their offspring even more so.
    which leads to

    What we share with our “best friend” is a major reduction in immediate, reflexive violent responses to real or apparent threats and frustrations. And of course, people, like dogs, are diverse on this score. Some people are more like wolves; others are more like Labrador retrievers.

    Belyaev, Hare and Wrangham are making claims about evolution, not about politics. But they tell us something about what keeps societies together and what makes them fall apart — and also, I think, about what separates out the best of us.

    Evolutionary anthropologists use the word “docility,” but a stronger term, suitable for both dogs and people, is grace. It is the opposite of savagery. It signals an ability to think charitably of others, which is crucial to an absence of reactive aggression. And in social interactions, grace generally breeds more of itself.
    .

    Anyway I thought it was an interesting read that sheds some possible light onto our relationship with dogs. Who, by the way, not only drool but rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    This piece (http://www.startribune.com/dogs-huma...est/565557152/] suggests
    B
    Belyaev had a startling hypothesis, which was that all of the characteristics of dogs evolved from one feature: docility.

    At some point in ancient history, Belyaev speculated, relatively docile wolves mated with one another. Their offspring became more docile still, and their offspring even more so.
    which leads to

    What we share with our “best friend” is a major reduction in immediate, reflexive violent responses to real or apparent threats and frustrations. And of course, people, like dogs, are diverse on this score. Some people are more like wolves; others are more like Labrador retrievers.

    Belyaev, Hare and Wrangham are making claims about evolution, not about politics. But they tell us something about what keeps societies together and what makes them fall apart — and also, I think, about what separates out the best of us.

    Evolutionary anthropologists use the word “docility,” but a stronger term, suitable for both dogs and people, is grace. It is the opposite of savagery. It signals an ability to think charitably of others, which is crucial to an absence of reactive aggression. And in social interactions, grace generally breeds more of itself.
    .

    Anyway I thought it was an interesting read that sheds some possible light onto our relationship with dogs. Who, by the way, not only drool but rule.
    I agree that the more amicable animals were favored by humans which led to domestication, as southernhybrid stated as well, but it seems that as we have taken ourselves out of nature, we have taken dogs out too. Dogs still have a lot of pack instincts: hunting, running, very social - Perfect for paleolithic nomadic tribal life where they worked, lived and slept with or near their people.

    Some dogs live close to their people without being penned up all day waiting for someone to return. I fear a lot don't. Others have been bred so drastically unlike their ancestors, mostly to adapt to more modern lifestyles (I think) that they have serious health issues. I've known of dogs who spend a big part of the day in a cage waiting for someone to come home.

  10. Top | #10
    Fair dinkum thinkum bilby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    This piece (http://www.startribune.com/dogs-huma...est/565557152/] suggests
    B which leads to

    .

    Anyway I thought it was an interesting read that sheds some possible light onto our relationship with dogs. Who, by the way, not only drool but rule.
    I agree that the more amicable animals were favored by humans which led to domestication, as southernhybrid stated as well, but it seems that as we have taken ourselves out of nature, we have taken dogs out too. Dogs still have a lot of pack instincts: hunting, running, very social - Perfect for paleolithic nomadic tribal life where they worked, lived and slept with or near their people.

    Some dogs live close to their people without being penned up all day waiting for someone to return. I fear a lot don't. Others have been bred so drastically unlike their ancestors, mostly to adapt to more modern lifestyles (I think) that they have serious health issues. I've known of dogs who spend a big part of the day in a cage waiting for someone to come home.
    We have taken ourselves out of nature, because on the whole, nature sucks.

    Sure, there are problems associated with our artificial environment; But on average, it's FAR superior to the natural environment we left behind.

    And that's true for dogs as much as it is for us. Neither my dogs nor myself need to go a day or two without food. We don't get wet when it rains, or suffer the heat in midsummer or the cold of wintertime. We are not hunted by predators, and we can live in one spot for years without finding ourselves up to the eyeballs in our own faeces.

    Nature isn't synonymous with goodness; And our artificial environment is whatever we make it to be. Suffering and cruelty occur in both environments, but suffering even without cruelty is the hallmark of nature.

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