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Thread: "How are you diverse?" Is Academia beyond hope?

  1. Top | #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    I'm talking about the occasional piece highlighting an individual student to whom it happens.
    Not to be pedantic or anything, but you did in fact claim they were almost always black.
    Yes, I did claim that and I was right. Over the years, I have come across the occasional news story of the "Ivy League chooser" - the student accepted into every Ivy League university, and my recall was that the student was always black.

    And then I looked it up and, as you can see, showed my receipts. In that single article I linked, all but one of the "Ivy League choosers" list was black.

    Toni made a claim that they were almost always Asian, and she has not shown receipts. In fact, I find that ludicrously unlikely given how much discrimination the Ivy League universities practise against Asian students.

  2. Top | #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    I'm talking about the occasional piece highlighting an individual student to whom it happens.
    Not to be pedantic or anything, but you did in fact claim they were almost always black.
    Yes, I did claim that and I was right. Over the years, I have come across the occasional news story of the "Ivy League chooser" - the student accepted into every Ivy League university, and my recall was that the student was always black.

    And then I looked it up and, as you can see, showed my receipts. In that single article I linked, all but one of the "Ivy League choosers" list was black.

    Toni made a claim that they were almost always Asian, and she has not shown receipts. In fact, I find that ludicrously unlikely given how much discrimination the Ivy League universities practise against Asian students.
    Toni asked you for data and Toni does have other things to do than sit in front of a screen.

  3. Top | #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post

    Yes, I did claim that and I was right. Over the years, I have come across the occasional news story of the "Ivy League chooser" - the student accepted into every Ivy League university, and my recall was that the student was always black.

    And then I looked it up and, as you can see, showed my receipts. In that single article I linked, all but one of the "Ivy League choosers" list was black.

    Toni made a claim that they were almost always Asian, and she has not shown receipts. In fact, I find that ludicrously unlikely given how much discrimination the Ivy League universities practise against Asian students.
    Toni asked you for data and Toni does have other things to do than sit in front of a screen.
    You were wrong Toni. Own it.

  4. Top | #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly_Penguin View Post
    A recent immigrant who speaks 3 languages but is just now learning English, grew up in a jungle, under communism or some other non-democratic system, and knows how to carve a canoe out of a log.... THAT'S diversity, regardless of skin colour. Instead we get another person who has almost entirely the same life experiences, language, ideas, opinions, politics, etc but happens to have dark skin or narrow eyes, and we pretend that's "diverse". Another open question is whether or not diversity really is necessarily something to look for.
    I think there is some value to diversity of life experiences. Skin color is not life experience, though, diverse skin colors are only a benefit if you're testing something that works on humans. (For example, the sinks with sensors that don't see black people because there were no black people in the development team to notice the problem. Note that this need not be racism, such teams are generally small enough you won't find a black in every such team. They should specifically look for some for testing, though.)

  5. Top | #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post

    And yes, I'm sure she's right that in some cases, she's being used as a 'diversity candidate' to fulfill some requirement that they seek out and interview some minotirity candidates before they select the guy who graduated from wherever they most like to hire candidates from. Surprisingly, it's not generally Harvard. In fact, the last time someone from Harvard applied at this small university in the middle of flyover country, the general reaction was how badly did he screw up?
    I don't know where your Harvard rant came from, but I challenge your general premise that academics ultimately hire the 'guy' (I assume your language was gendered on purpose) they were going to hire anyway. It's as if you believe nobody actually believes in "diversity", in which case, how did it become so enshrined in the academy?

    There are two ways to react to diversity. Be a true believer, or pretend you are a true believer. Anything else is career suicide.
    She is at least somewhat right--organizations often already have a candidate in mind and do a job search just to comply with the rules. You can often spot this by looking at the job description--a ridiculously detailed set of requirements in a position that doesn't really require that breadth of knowledge and if a salary is listed it's not consistent with the breadth of knowledge being asked for. They used the person's resume to write the job description so they would end up #1 in the selection.

  6. Top | #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Trausti View Post

    Me and my wrongthink.

    The Diversity Staff at the University of Michigan Is Nearly 100 Full-Time Employees

    1. The University of Michigan currently employs a diversity staff of nearly 100 (93) full-time diversity administrators, officers, directors, vice-provosts, deans, consultants, specialists, investigators, managers, executive assistants, administrative assistants, analysts, and coordinators.

    2. More than one-quarter (26) of these “diversicrats” earn annual salaries of more than $100,000, and the total payroll for this small army is $8.4 million. When you add to cash salaries an estimated 32.45% for UM’s very generous fringe benefit package for the average employee in this group (retirement, health care, dental insurance, life insurance, long-term disability, paid leave, paid vacation, social security, unemployment insurance, Medicare, etc.) the total employee compensation for this group tops $11 million per year. And of course that doesn’t count the cost of office space, telephones, computers and printers, printing, postage, programs, training, or travel expenses.
    Posting irrelevant tripe from conservative websites makes a much different point than you expect.
    Please support your claims here, specifically "irrelevant" and "tripe".

    He's showing considerable costs from the diversity quest. Things in the real world have costs, they're not freebies.

  7. Top | #57
    Super Moderator ruby sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Yes, I did claim that and I was right.
    So you didn't say "school leavers who get accepted into multiple Ivy League universities are almost always black". I see. I'm going to have to get my laptop screen seen to, or my eyes tested, one or the other.

  8. Top | #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by laughing dog View Post
    Posting irrelevant tripe from conservative websites makes a much different point than you expect.
    Please support your claims here, specifically "irrelevant" and "tripe".
    Try to pay attention please. His response is irrelevant to the disputed claim he would be forced to go "groupthink".
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel View Post
    He's showing considerable costs from the diversity quest. Things in the real world have costs, they're not freebies.
    Yes, in the real world, things have cost. But whether those costs are costs about "diversity" and whether they are considerable are debatable and were not relevant to the discussion.

  9. Top | #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post

    Yes, I did claim that and I was right. Over the years, I have come across the occasional news story of the "Ivy League chooser" - the student accepted into every Ivy League university, and my recall was that the student was always black.

    And then I looked it up and, as you can see, showed my receipts. In that single article I linked, all but one of the "Ivy League choosers" list was black.

    Toni made a claim that they were almost always Asian, and she has not shown receipts. In fact, I find that ludicrously unlikely given how much discrimination the Ivy League universities practise against Asian students.
    Toni asked you for data and Toni does have other things to do than sit in front of a screen.
    You were wrong Toni. Own it.
    Your claim about "all Ivy leaguers" is pretty inconsequential since it an anecdote based on anecdote. Quoting a newspaper article that has non-random small sample as somehow relevant is good evidence for a position you are not taking.

  10. Top | #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby sparks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Yes, I did claim that and I was right.
    So you didn't say "school leavers who get accepted into multiple Ivy League universities are almost always black". I see. I'm going to have to get my laptop screen seen to, or my eyes tested, one or the other.
    Are you in cloud cuckoo land? I did say that and I was right. What part of my post was ambiguous? What part of my evidence was ambiguous?

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